degreeing cams?

jivepepper said:

Nah! It's because they sound cool.

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steveb24 said:

im just gonna throw this out there...

From what i understand by reading this thread, degreeing a set of cams in short is "lining them up properly with the crankshaft", by using the cam gears. The goal is to get them lined up as they were when stock, to have the proper balance throughout the engines components, which would be damn hard to do if you pulled and dissconnected everything. When people like Hotmustang and I install cams by pulling the covers, we NEVER removed the timing chanin, so the cam gears themselves never moved. How than would anything be different from stock when you place the new cams in? I understand what you guys are saying, and the only answer i can think of is.. The new cams produce new tolerances that need to be changed, but is that even true? If so, i understand completely, but if not, especially with a small stg 1 cam like ours, theres no point in all at "lining" anything up, if nothing ever changed.

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LaserRed01GT said:

Those two posts are quite possibly the rudest, most immature and disrepectful comments I have read on this entire board so far. I don't see where Fast Eddie personally attacked anyone in here, he was just stating his opinion, but he sure did get attacked.

What started this was when hotmustang331 jumped in here and started popping off his mouth that "you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to these cams and their specs". This guy doesn't even know me and he starts spouting off facts about what I do and don't know. I've busted my ass going to technical schooling, running my own businesses, spending time at various tracks all over the nation on several different racing teams, and studying cars and motors on my own just to get where I am. That kind of disrepsect has no place here on this board and really pisses me off.

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LaserRed01GT said:

Those two posts are quite possibly the rudest, most immature and disrepectful comments I have read on this entire board so far. I don't see where Fast Eddie personally attacked anyone in here, he was just stating his opinion, but he sure did get attacked.

What started this was when hotmustang331 jumped in here and started popping off his mouth that "you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to these cams and their specs". This guy doesn't even know me and he starts spouting off facts about what I do and don't know. I've busted my ass going to technical schooling, running my own businesses, spending time at various tracks all over the nation on several different racing teams, and studying cars and motors on my own just to get where I am. That kind of disrepsect has no place here on this board and really pisses me off.

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LaserRed01GT said:

Don't even think about not degreeing your camshafts upon installation. It is a critical step. Doesn't matter if it's a Stage 1 or Stage 999 camshaft, they must be degreed.

At minimum, you will need a dial indicator, piston stop (spark plug hole), degree wheel, cam checking fixture, valve check springs.

For beginners attempting to degree a cam for the first time, Comp Cams makes a pretty good beginner kit. It is part # Comp Cams 4796.

EDIT: One more thing. I would also suggest gettting a set of adjustable cam gears. Without them it is nearly impossible to "dial in" teh camshafts correctly. Fidanza and Comp make some good ones.

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hotmustang331 said:

Yikes!!!!!!!!

Although I have to SLIGHTLY dissagree with laserred in the area of "you must degree any stage cams". Stg 1 cams will NOT have PTV contact....there has been one case with those cams, and the guy accedentally advanced the cams 1 tooth (around 17*s) .
Even Scott @ VTengine will tell you that there has not been one single case of PTV contact when those cams are installed @ 0*s (straight up).
Although I do highly recommend it for the sake of increased performance, its not required.....however all other cams should be mandatory, as they ALL have greater actual valve overlap and the same or more lift as the VT stg 1 cams and there are a few cases of PTV contact with msot of them (262s being the exception on PTV I believe...but not 100% sure).

BTW we didnt degree my cams....didnt even pull the front cover. Only thing that came off were the valve covers . Thats what I like about the cams, such an easy install.
Otherwise I wouldnt have done it, because if I were pulling the front cover down I would have went ahead and got aftermarket valve springs and stg 2 cams.

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LaserRed01GT said:

My God there is some misinformation on this website. You guys are confusing degreeing a camshaft with finitely adjusting a camshaft after it has been degreed. Make no mistake about it, a camshaft MUST BE DEGREED! It's not an option, it's not if you feel like it or not, it's not "well a couple of guys said they don't degree their cams.", it's an absoltute necessity. BTW, if you guys have actually talked to people that have installed camshafts in motors without degreeing them, do not EVER take their advice on cars or engines ever ever again.

Crane Cam's explantion, and it's a good one:

The term "Degreeing In Your Camshaft" means you are making sure the camshaft's position in the engine coincides with that of the crankshaft, so that their rotation is synchronized. This is the only way you will know if the rise and fall of the pistons properly matches the opening and closing of the valves, so the engine will run properly. A few degrees of misalignment can affect the engine's operation dramatically.

If the circumstances were perfect, one would only need to line up the marks on the timing chain sprockets and the cam would be degreed. In reality, you are dealing with a group of components (the camshaft, crankshaft, timing chain, and sprockets), all with their own standards and tolerances. If these tolerances stack up against you, it could throw you out of alignment. Without degreeing the cam you can never be sure that the parts are in correct position. If you have the tools and expertise, we always recommend that the camshaft's position in the engine be degreed in.

Is There More Than One Way to Degree a Cam, and Which is Better?

Currently there are two popular methods for degreeing a cam: the centerline method, and the duration at .050" lift method. We believe it is far better to degree the camshaft with either method than not to degree the cam at all; but of the two methods, the duration at .050" lift is much more accurate.

The main problem with the centerline method is it has you finding the theoretical centerline of the intake and/or exhaust lobe and line up on it. It makes the basic assumption that the lobe you are checking is symmetrical, with its opening side being the exact same shape and size as the closing side of the lobe. The truth is that most modern lobes are asymmetrical, with the opening side of the lobe being much more aggressive and the closing side being more gentle.

Therefore, when you attempt to locate the middle (or centerline) of the asymmetrical lobe there is an automatic error factor. It could be as little as 2? off or as much as 6?, depending on the exact lobe shape and the procedure used during the degreeing operation. Neither does it verify that the camshaft has been properly ground with the correct duration lobes, which can drastically affect performance. Since the duration at .050" lift method is not affected by the asymmetrical lobe design, we believe it is the more accurate way to degree.

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