desperate!!!! Water pump help needed
- Thread starter krd005
- Start date
well if your car is like mine and had a leaky waterpump gasket for a long time, some water got in the timing cover and rusted the bolts all to hell. Even my impact wrench wouldn't do anything, I had to use a 4 foot cheater bar and a 1/2" ratchet which broke the bolts and then I used a zip gun to try and "disturb" the rust to get the bolts out with a set of good vice-grips. Even then I had to tear open part of the timing cover to get a bolt out... freaking 20 minute job turned into 4 hours... and a new timing cover
Take a cardboard box, & turn it upside down. Count the number of bolts that hold the water pump on, don’t forget to count the 4 funny looking studs too. Poke a hole in the box for each bolt/stud. Arrange the holes in a circular formation, and mark the box at the 12:00 point. When you remove a water pump bolt, put it in one of the holes in the box according to where it came out of the water pump. When you are done, all bolts will be arranged it the exact same order and position that you removed them from the water pump. That makes re-installing them easy, no wondering where does this bolt go.
Use lots of NeverSeeze when you reassemble the pump bolts. That will make it easier next time (yes, there will always be a next time!).
Here’s the parts list for the broken water pump bolts. Not cheap, but it will get you fixed and back on the road…
A word about the links, if they don’t work, do a search on the part number (P/N). MSC updates their catalog regularly, and the pages may change, but the part numbers don’t. You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1096 Use drill bushing 5/16” OD, 5/32” ID, ¾” long, P/N 07010457, price $8.57 This centers the drill bit in the housing bolt hole so you don’t get off center and damage the water pump, timing cover housing or engine block
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=27 drill bits - use 5/32” Cobalt/TiN coated bit. P/N 78530433, price $3.91
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1928 Screw/bolt extractors. Use EZY-OUT Screw Extractor P/N 63760037 Price $2.67
One step specialty item: See Drill-Out® Broken Bolt Extractors drill bushing, reverse twist drill & extractor all in one unit. Best to use when the bolt breaks off with the remaining part below the start of the threads. .P/N 05027164. Price $18.33 each. You MUST have a reversing drill motor (either air or electric) to use this bit. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=19268
A long shank tap should be used to chase the leftover metal out of the original threads. Also recommended to clean the corrosion and dirt out of the threads before you reassemble everything. Cleaning the threads will help prevent the bolts from seizing next time (yes, there will be a next time).
Long shank 5/16” taps
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=279 5/16” pulley tap, 6” shank P/N 04801189 price $14.26
OR second choice, will not clean all the bottom threads unless you grind the end of the tap.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=2798 extension tap, 6” reduced diameter shank P/N 04701181 $16.17
See http://www.windsorfox.com for Stainless Steel Water Pump Bolts with Custom stainless steel studs. Allow the use of factory accessory brackets without hunting for obsolete parts or using spacers.
Kit comes complete with nine polished stainless 12 point bolts, four stainless studs and nine stainless oversized washers.
Price: $65.95
See http://totallystainless.net/totally.html for the bolts. Last time I checked, they didn't have the studs. Nice folks, very into cars of all types. They have all kinds of stainless fasteners for almost every car. The prices are very reasonable, less the $8 for the water pump kit without the studs.
The studs are a Motormite item available at your local Advance Discount auto Parts store.
Motormite Water Pump Stud Kits for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars and trucks w/3.8L, 4.6L, 5.0L, 5.8L.
Part Number: 23744
Use lots of NeverSeeze when you reassemble the pump bolts. That will make it easier next time (yes, there will always be a next time!).
Here’s the parts list for the broken water pump bolts. Not cheap, but it will get you fixed and back on the road…
A word about the links, if they don’t work, do a search on the part number (P/N). MSC updates their catalog regularly, and the pages may change, but the part numbers don’t. You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1096 Use drill bushing 5/16” OD, 5/32” ID, ¾” long, P/N 07010457, price $8.57 This centers the drill bit in the housing bolt hole so you don’t get off center and damage the water pump, timing cover housing or engine block
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=27 drill bits - use 5/32” Cobalt/TiN coated bit. P/N 78530433, price $3.91
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1928 Screw/bolt extractors. Use EZY-OUT Screw Extractor P/N 63760037 Price $2.67
One step specialty item: See Drill-Out® Broken Bolt Extractors drill bushing, reverse twist drill & extractor all in one unit. Best to use when the bolt breaks off with the remaining part below the start of the threads. .P/N 05027164. Price $18.33 each. You MUST have a reversing drill motor (either air or electric) to use this bit. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=19268
A long shank tap should be used to chase the leftover metal out of the original threads. Also recommended to clean the corrosion and dirt out of the threads before you reassemble everything. Cleaning the threads will help prevent the bolts from seizing next time (yes, there will be a next time).
Long shank 5/16” taps
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=279 5/16” pulley tap, 6” shank P/N 04801189 price $14.26
OR second choice, will not clean all the bottom threads unless you grind the end of the tap.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=2798 extension tap, 6” reduced diameter shank P/N 04701181 $16.17
See http://www.windsorfox.com for Stainless Steel Water Pump Bolts with Custom stainless steel studs. Allow the use of factory accessory brackets without hunting for obsolete parts or using spacers.
Kit comes complete with nine polished stainless 12 point bolts, four stainless studs and nine stainless oversized washers.
Price: $65.95
See http://totallystainless.net/totally.html for the bolts. Last time I checked, they didn't have the studs. Nice folks, very into cars of all types. They have all kinds of stainless fasteners for almost every car. The prices are very reasonable, less the $8 for the water pump kit without the studs.
The studs are a Motormite item available at your local Advance Discount auto Parts store.
Motormite Water Pump Stud Kits for Ford, Lincoln and Mercury cars and trucks w/3.8L, 4.6L, 5.0L, 5.8L.
Part Number: 23744
JChalfan
Member
Just a quick suggestion... If you end up using an "easy out" type of broken bolt extractor, try VERY HARD not to break the easy out off in the bolt. They are made out of very hard steel, and are nearly impossible to get out if you break one.
When you broke the bolt, did it break with any part of it sticking out so you can get some vice grips or something on it? It definitely sounds like you will end up removing the timing cover.
Jeff
When you broke the bolt, did it break with any part of it sticking out so you can get some vice grips or something on it? It definitely sounds like you will end up removing the timing cover.
Jeff
Boss 351 said:
You are exactly right!!! Mine were rusty too, but luckly they came out. I cleaned them all up then put some grease on them and slapped it together.
As far as some advice to the guy doing the pump....HEAT will work wonders.. Get a torch on them things. Or just run the motor to operating temperature, and then try them.
ninety15.0
New Member
- Mar 10, 2004
- 1,336
- 0
- 0
I had the same exact issue..i broke two...one of them way in the timing chain cover. I used an easy out for the one that was deep in there and a good set of vice grips and a torch for the one that was sticking out. Its no fun man...good luck
Hammer the bolt heads a little, and when you remove them, take your time. If you're using a cheater bar give it a sort of swaying motion instead of a constent pull... you want to try and loosen the rust. Untight, tight, untight, tight... and use plenty of loosenut (whatever brand)...
These jobs are a PITA when stuff like this happens. When I rebuild my engine, I'm getting an ENTIRE ARP stainless bolt kit for the engine from intake to oil pan.
These jobs are a PITA when stuff like this happens. When I rebuild my engine, I'm getting an ENTIRE ARP stainless bolt kit for the engine from intake to oil pan.
JChalfan
Member
Boss 351 said:
Excellent advice! Smack the head of each bolt a couple times with a hammer, often that will break the bolt loose and it will come out a LOT easier.
Jeff
Boss 351 has an excellent point: vibration has a way of loosening rusted fasteners without breaking them. Soak them and vibrate them and then soak and virbrate them some more...
Personally, I wouldnt use air tools. The impact characteristic is nice, but most tools dont allow you to modulate the turning action with enough precision (you need to 'feel' what the fastener is doing).
The advice above with breaking the threads free is very good.
Good luck.
The advice above with breaking the threads free is very good.
Good luck.
Jaswir
Member
i wouldnt use a IMPACK gun because i broke one that way... lucky it just broke the very tip off and i was able to still thread it back in and tight it down... but all the bolts were real easy for me to get out, just needed a lil breaker bar
OK!!!!
Tackled it last night with cheater bar. Out of 7 or 8 bolts I got one out in one piece. 3 of them broke in half and the others snapped off at the head.
This sucks!!!!!
Now my next question is do I try to fix my own problem or do I just suck it up and pay someone. Keep in mind I am new to working on my car. Up until now I just paid my guy.
What is your opinion???
Tackled it last night with cheater bar. Out of 7 or 8 bolts I got one out in one piece. 3 of them broke in half and the others snapped off at the head.
This sucks!!!!!
Now my next question is do I try to fix my own problem or do I just suck it up and pay someone. Keep in mind I am new to working on my car. Up until now I just paid my guy.
What is your opinion???
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