Did I ruin my engine?

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

0

1

Wisconsin

Nov 20, 2005

#1

• Nov 20, 2005

• #1

Alright, I just finished doing a hci swap. I installed the trick flow kit along with new injectors, maf, tb, etc. Before starting, I did not prime the motor. I did however squirt about ½ quart of oil on each head with an oil can. I tried to ensure oil was squirted on the valve guides per the tf instructions. My first attempt to start did not succeed and it turned out I had the dist 180 degrees off. I prolly only cranked for 10 secs total before I realized this. I fixed the dist and she started right up. Seemed to idle ok and I let it run for a few minutes while I checked for leaks and set timing. That’s when I checked the oil and noticed metal shavings in it. They are very fine metallic shavings of aluminum (I have magnetic drain plugs – nothing on them). I drain the oil and put in new. Start the car again and let it idle for about 10 mins. Turn it off and check the oil – lots of very small metallic shavings. So, what do you guys think? Did I ruin the motor by not priming? Was not pouring oil on the heads enough? Or is it normal to have these shavings during initial break-in? Thanks.

 

bluevenom867

I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in

Dec 15, 2003

1,704

1

0

St.Petersburg,FL

Nov 20, 2005

#2

• Nov 20, 2005

• #2

Did you put a new cam in?Pull the valve covers and check the rockers/studs/ect.

Thats about all I could think of that would do that with out touching the short block.

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

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1

Wisconsin

Nov 20, 2005

#3

• Nov 20, 2005

• #3

Yeah, I did put in a new tf stage 1 cam. Used plenty of assembly lube on it. I have pulled the valve covers off since I could leave it alone w/o checking. Everything appears to be normal from what I can see. I'm guessing it is not normal then to have ANY metallic shavings in the oil after a swap like this? Doesn't seem logical that one should, but I'm hoping that maybe it can happen.

 

ram360

Founding Member

Oct 19, 2002

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59

Pennsylvania

Nov 20, 2005

#4

• Nov 20, 2005

• #4

any kind of metallic shaving is not a good sign and no that's not normal. I mean if you used an a break in concentrate on the cam, lifters,etc... I would think that's enough protection for the startup for the few seconds before the oil pump kicks in (even though I always prime it before starting something new). I'm not an expert but from my own experience I don't think it's enough to cause that.

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

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1

Wisconsin

Nov 20, 2005

#5

• Nov 20, 2005

• #5

I was under the impression from my instructions that it wasn’t an absolute must to prime but at minimum, the heads need to be squirted with oil. I planned to prime, but regretfully did not. Is there anything else that would cause metal shavings? I have rocker noise (especially from the drivers side) but nothing else abnormal sounding. Keep in mind that it's been cold here in my location. So an engine that wasn't primed to begin with has cold oil trying to flow thru it. Any ideas? Thanks guys.

 

I

iapexl8r

Member

Apr 1, 2005

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Nov 20, 2005

#6

• Nov 20, 2005

• #6

first do you have a roller cam?? iam going to guess you do. are you sure its aluminum not brass shavings. if you have an oiling issue your shavings will be a goldish bronzish tint this is ususlly the color of bearing material. if your sure its aluminum it could be somthing rubbing on your timing chain cover ar on your heads. I would verify what the shavings are for sure and where they are coming from. sounds like you will have to start dissasembly chris

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

0

1

Wisconsin

Nov 20, 2005

#7

• Nov 20, 2005

• #7

Yes, everything is roller. The shavings are definitely a bright silver and only silver. The timing cover does seem like an interesting theory. Would there be any noise from something like that though? Fortunately, this isn’t my daily driver and the winters are long here. Plenty of time to disassemble to try and find out. Of course, if the motor is shot, then I’m not sure it’s worth the effort.

 

stang8urimport

Autozone Junkie

Founding Member

Jun 21, 2002

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59

Daytona Beach, FL

Nov 20, 2005

#8

• Nov 20, 2005

• #8

Check the timing cover... Make sure the cam bolt is not hitting the timing cover. I had this happen, and it ended up breaking the cam bolt... throwing the chain... and breaking the block in half... along with two rods, two pistons, and the crank in half... Also bent 12 of 16 valves in my brand new AFR 165s. Nice huh? Metal shavings is NOT normal, so I would def. do some research and some tear down to find out what the problem is before going any further or driving it, cause you could end up killing the motor and the 3K you just spent on parts.

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

0

1

Wisconsin

Nov 20, 2005

#9

• Nov 20, 2005

• #9

Ok, thanks for the ideas and advice. I guess that will be my next move then and remove the timing cover to check. I certainly don’t want a thrown chain and all the havoc that can come with that. That must have been a hell of a bad day eh PoopDawg! Damn! Assuming I can get the cause of the metallic flakes fixed, what kind of toll are the flakes that are already in there going to take (or have taken) on the motor? Main bearings and oil pump for example. Aluminum is a soft metal and hopefully the oil can keep the flakes in suspension but I’m not experienced on the science of internal combustion engines. Thanks

 

I

iapexl8r

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Apr 1, 2005

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Nov 21, 2005

#10

• Nov 21, 2005

• #10

just re read post, before removing the timing chain cover check the inside of the valve covers for witness marks. the roller rockers could be hitting the valve covers. some times you can get away with a double gasket to releive the interfearence chris

 

5.0fox

Member

Feb 10, 2003

410

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buckley/enumclaw wa

Nov 21, 2005

#11

• Nov 21, 2005

• #11

you guys know its nothing aluminum right because he said it was stuck to his magnetic drain plug.

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

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1

Wisconsin

Nov 21, 2005

#12

• Nov 21, 2005

• #12

I did mention magnetic drain plugs, but there was NOT anything on them. The shavings are silver and not sticking to the magnet. My first thought was the valve covers also. I have removed them to check for marks but I don't see anything. Everything looks clean there. I'm considering calling TFS just to ask what could cause this. Does anyone know what would happen if for example the motor was started dry? Dry as in no oil squirted on the heads and no priming. I did of course oil the heads but I'm just curious how devastating it would be and what the results would be. Would doing that cause shavings or what? Seems like even if that were the case, it wouldn't cause the metallic shavings I'm experiencing. Thanks for the ideas, keep 'em coming.

 

urban96

bubb rubb says:"woo woooooo"

Founding Member

Sep 24, 2002

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69

Syracuse, NY

Nov 21, 2005

#13

• Nov 21, 2005

• #13

what kind of heads/rockers... not too many alum parts in the motor so it should make it easier to track down

you did change the filter tho when you changed the oil right?

 

I

iapexl8r

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Apr 1, 2005

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Nov 21, 2005

#14

• Nov 21, 2005

• #14

Iam guessing you did not remove the oil pump and you had oil in the pan upon start up. this should effect NOTHING. the oil pump was primed(if it was never removed) the only thing would be if you installed new lifters, which priming them is not a big deal. IF you had a Running the motor dry issue as said before your shavings would be a bronzish or goldish colour bearings. pull your timing cover and tell us what you find. chris

 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician

Aug 8, 2003

8,057

1,642

194

NJ

Nov 21, 2005

#15

• Nov 21, 2005

• #15

The valve cover comment above is worth looking at. I believe mosrt rockers on aftermarket heads with stock valve covers will hit the baffle, I know with TW's mine sure would of.

 

kmanno

New Member

Apr 2, 2005

7

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1

Wisconsin

Nov 21, 2005

#16

• Nov 21, 2005

• #16

The heads are aluminum tw’s. So you are right about there not being a whole lot of other aluminum materials in there. I’m not sure what all metals make up the inside of a motor and which of those would not stick to a magnet. After the completed install, I put on a new filter and fresh oil. I then drained the oil once and put in new. I have not yet changed the filter a second time. The oil pump was never touched. Everything I installed was coated in oil or assembly lube. Granted, those parts may have sat for a long period of time after getting oil, but it shouldn’t be any different than just parking the car for several weeks. You’re also right about the valve covers, there WAS definitely a clearance issue with the baffle. I ground down the mounting posts on both covers and reattached the baffle. Like I mentioned though, I do not see any scuff marks on the rockers or inside the vc. Some of the old school guys here think it may be my cam. I’m not sure how that could be though since it’s all roller and I used what I thought to be plenty of lube. Everything I’ve read states that it’s not generally a concern on the roller cam for break-in etc. I will really just have to take the timing cover off and check for wear marks. If not there, then time to pull the lower and get a closer inspection of the lifter valley. Then pull the cam back out and look. At this point, I just don’t want the heads damaged and the metal shavings to hurt the motor.

 

5.0fox

Member

Feb 10, 2003

410

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buckley/enumclaw wa

Nov 24, 2005

#17

• Nov 24, 2005

• #17

could possibly be you timing cahin rubbing on the inside of the cover also.