Do you need rocker stud and spring upgrades on afr 165s?

1bad92lx · Aug 9, 2005

I was fixing to buy a set of afr 165's and people have said that you need to upgrade to arp studs with the afr upgraded springs. Is this true for a mild 306 with a cam of about 500 lift and won't be shifted over 6,000 rpms?

thanks,

Matt

N8Miller · Aug 9, 2005

i would upgrade the springs. i wouldnt worry about the stud, but it wouldnt hurt to upgrade that too.

Grn92LX · Aug 10, 2005

I've heard of guys breaking stock afr rocker studs. Something about them not being arp or they used to not be arp. You would think for all that money they would be. If their not arp, swap them. Springs definatly swap unless your using an E cam or something very tiny.

1bad92lx · Aug 10, 2005

I believe the cam is close to an E if not one. I know it isn't over 500 lift. Will the stock springs be ok with this small of a cam? I think that for $1,300 you wouldn't have to spend anymore on them. I just don't see paying over $1,500 to have a set of afr 165's that will be reliable. Hopefully the stud breaking problem is of the past and maybe I can get away with the stock springs. If not, then I will be buying another set of Holley heads. I have never had a problem out of them and they will valve float at almost 7,000 out of the box.

Rick 91GT · Aug 10, 2005

The stock rocker studs are OK they are not ARP. I haven't had any issue when using a stock type spring with a mild cam, under 6500rpms. With a E-cam the stock springs will not be an issue, the ramp is very soft. Now that said I still think the ARP studs are a good upgrade and you can do them by yourself for $30.

When or if you go to an aggresive cam you will need to upgrade to the proper springs, and Viton seals (depending on the ID of the spring).

Grn92LX · Aug 10, 2005

Heres a thread of an example of an afr rocker stud breaking at 1500 rpm. I'd spent the $30 like Rick said and upgrade to arp's.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=688271

1bad92lx · Aug 10, 2005

Thanks rick and grn92lx. I believe I will buy the arp studs. I bought the heads today without the spring upgrade, so I'm glad I won't need it. But I don't like the stud problem. I will definitely buy them. Wheres a good place to get the studs? Rick, would you happen to know the ARP part # I need?

thanks,

Matt

Grn92LX · Aug 10, 2005

What ever happened to your dss 331? Any update?

Rick 91GT · Aug 10, 2005

I believe is it PT# ARP-134-7104 ASSUMING you have the 3/8" studs/roller rockers on your car.

Base Thread Size: 7/16-14 in.
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Guideplate Locator Shank: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Length (in): 1.000
Effective Stud Length (in): 1.895
Base Thread Length (in): 0.710
Quantity: Sold as a kit.

Rocker Arm Studs, High Performance, 3/8-24 in. Thread, 1.895 in. Effective Stud Length, Ford, Small Block, Kit

stang8urimport · Aug 10, 2005

I didn't upgrade my springs or studs on my 83 when I installed the 165s.... I used a Comp XE 274 H... Flat tappet with much less of a ramp rate then the XE274HR roller cam. Less lift and more duration then the HR also. Fugger reved very clean to 6500 rpm, and the lift was, IIRC, .512/.523... Something like that... But it was real nice, until the cam bolt came loose at 6K, and broke the motor completely in half... LOCKTITE IS YOUR FRIEND!

Modular2v · Aug 10, 2005

i hope i dont have to do any of this when i order my 185s

Rick 91GT · Aug 11, 2005

Modular2v said:
i hope i dont have to do any of this when i order my 185s

Just order a set of ARP studs and upgrade them before you install the heads. Depending on the cam you may need to upgrade the springs, AFR advertises 120lbs of pressure. I find that is usually close but they go away pretty quick. If you need to upgrade valve springs I can help you out...

1bad92lx · Aug 11, 2005

Thanks for the part # Rick. My 165's will be here tomorrow and I'm going to just install the ARP studs myself while I'm waiting to buy a few more parts. That way I won't even have to worry about a stock stud breaking.

1bad92lx · Aug 11, 2005

Grn92lx, I just saw your question about the DSS motor. I came to the conclusion that even with the low miles on the engine, that the cause for failure was more along the lines of revving a stock block with a cast crank over 7,000rpms all the time finally caught up with me. I believe that next time I will have a dart block with a all forged setup. I'm too busy getting this blower car together now to even worry with another 331 setup for now. But I do wonder if there were any assembly flaws on DSS's behalf that I don't know about. Oh well, you live you learn I guess.

later,

Matt

QDRHRSE · Aug 11, 2005

I had a pair of AFR 185's on one of my cars and I had trouble with the valve springs. I would replace them with whatever is recommended by the cam manfacturer. This approach, I'm sure, has saved my bacon quite a few times lately.

1bad92lx · Aug 13, 2005

The UPS truck just delivered my heads to me yesterday and I'm very impressed with them. The cnc porting looks real good. These are some of the best looking out of the box heads I've seen so far. I'm going to order my rocker studs from summit now and hopefully have them ready to go on by next weekend. Hey Rick, are the ARP studs the same length as the stock ones? I know that with the stock studs that I was told to use either a stock length pushrod or one that is .100 longer than stock. Just wanted to make sure that with the ARP studs I will have the right length pushrod. Which length pushrod do you use?

thanks again,

Matt

Modular2v · Aug 13, 2005

Rick 91GT said:
Just order a set of ARP studs and upgrade them before you install the heads. Depending on the cam you may need to upgrade the springs, AFR advertises 120lbs of pressure. I find that is usually close but they go away pretty quick. If you need to upgrade valve springs I can help you out...

i might take you up on the help offer rick!

Rick 91GT · Aug 13, 2005

1bad92lx said:
The UPS truck just delivered my heads to me yesterday and I'm very impressed with them. The cnc porting looks real good. These are some of the best looking out of the box heads I've seen so far. I'm going to order my rocker studs from summit now and hopefully have them ready to go on by next weekend. Hey Rick, are the ARP studs the same length as the stock ones? I know that with the stock studs that I was told to use either a stock length pushrod or one that is .100 longer than stock. Just wanted to make sure that with the ARP studs I will have the right length pushrod. Which length pushrod do you use?

thanks again,

Matt

Stud length will not change the pushrod length.... Make sure you use some teflon sealer on the new studs, and toque them to spec, align the guide plates at the same time. So bolt heads on the motor then change them put....

Usually on a 302 arouind 0 deck and a .030-.041 gasket I find a 6.25" pushrod works well, however I measure every motor with an adj pushrod to check geometry first. I like the Trickflow 1 pc chromemoly pushrods, for $90 they are hard to beat.

Rick 91GT · Aug 13, 2005

Modular2v said:
i might take you up on the help offer rick!

Just let me know...

CrazyCobra · Aug 14, 2005

1bad92lx said:
...Hey Rick, are the ARP studs the same length as the stock ones? I know that with the stock studs that I was told to use either a stock length pushrod or one that is .100 longer than stock. Just wanted to make sure that with the ARP studs I will have the right length pushrod. Which length pushrod do you use?

thanks again,

Matt

The answer will depend on your rocker arms. This is copied right from AFR's tech artical for installation instructions on Ford smallblocks.

ROCKER ARMS:
If you are using Comp. Cams 3/8 Pro Magnum rocker arms you will need to use a longer stud (AFR #6409) because of the thicker trunion on this rocker arm.

I believe that the recomended Stud is .100" longer.

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