Huh? I thought that was as simple as a little thread locker and port plugs that simply screw in. Am I missing something?
Forced Induction On3 turbo on stock 89 with 87K miles --suggestions
- Thread starter tank76
- Start date
Nearly impossible with engine in the car. I cut the tubes off, smashed the end of the tube sticking out a little then JBweld, and bolted the them back on with new gaskets.
You'd be lucky if the passage in the head is not plugged with carbon.
You'd be lucky if the passage in the head is not plugged with carbon.
gkomo
now i can hopefully expect to receive the shaft
Sorry to bring up an old thread but i'm starting to brainstorm where i want to go with my upcoming Fox.
I didn't really know you could 'beef' up the stock heads on these.
My previous Fox i had done the bottom end, 331 all forged (except stock crank), TFS H/C/I... spent a good amount of money on that combo and probably put out like 290rwhp, lol.
My new Fox has a stock engine with 167k miles on it. I was thinking of just supercharging this one and not really diving into everything i did previously. Would you suggest kind of doing what you suggested the OP do? Beef up the stock valvetrain and just go forced induction? I'd be super happy with like 350rwhp as my previous Fox was super fun to drive and 'only' had what i estimate to be less than 300rwhp.
89ripper
Founding Member
You said "probably" 290 hp, that seems really low for what you did, you sure about that? Yes the stock heads can be ported and you'll get many different opinions on what to expect. All I can say is if super charging you can expect some gains obviously just might be leaving some hp on the table.
My opinion also is from what my friends have done and what I have seen others do. So many variables to consider.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Short answer is yes. Turbo is a little different than supercharging though. Its a whole lot easuer to turn up the boost on a turbo car than changing pullies on a supercharger. Supercharged is the most rational decision for ease of installation and reliability. With more boost comes more stuff that needs to be done like ARP head studs, porting the heads, bigger fuel system, camshafts, piston materials, ring gaps, adj. roackers, and a crap ton more.
With that said. Most superchargers are at pretty low boost levels. With 5 or 6psi, on a stock engine, I wouldnt expect north of 300. With 8 to 10 you may see 350hp numbers.
With a stock engine turbo car I'd just run high octane fuel and turn the boost up until it blows and then do it again. Personally I'd drill and tap for 1/2 351 ARP studs. Throw some 1.6 intake and 1.7 exhaust roller rockers in it. Port the exhaust side of the head to match headers and use an explorer intake. Pistons would be a smart idea and properly gapped rings. If the block doesnt need machining it would be way less than building a 331 like mine. I don't race my car so I think I wouldve been happy with 10 to 12psi on a stock engine....meaning no heads, cam, or aftermarket intake.
gkomo
now i can hopefully expect to receive the shaft
I never dyno'd my car after doing all the engine work. I had the bottom end built for lower compression... i'd have to dig up my build sheet but i think it was like 9.5:1 if i recall. I had planned on supercharging that one, but then sold it. So i figured i was a "H/C/I" Fox which i've been reading is around high 200rwhp... the 331 may have given me a little more torque than just a 302.
If i go just the supercharger, no engine work route, i would probably buy the Vortech v3 Si non-intercooled supercharger kit from what i'm researching. By 'no engine work' i mean like not doing any bottom or top end work besides like you had mentioned in your earlier post i quoted, better valve springs, ARP head bolts, roller rockers, etc. I wasn't even thinking about porting the stock heads or anything. If it came to needing to do that, i would just buy some Twisted Wedge heads like i had before. Since my new Fox engine has 167k on it... i'm at a crossroads of where i want to go with it. If i have to pull the engine to do a rebuild, i'm just gonna go all the way and do a 331 again like i did on my last Fox, OR even maybe start thinking about a Coyote swap or something. And what i'm talking about here is purely engine work, i would of course do all the supporting mods (fuel system, MAF/TB, etc.) either way i go. It sort of just piqued my interest when you said if you could do it all over again you would have left the engine stock and just slapped forced induction on it.
None of this will happen right away, i'm going to start with MM suspension stuff first anyways, but it's always good to have a plan.
Hopefully you will address the lack of braking when you do the suspension and just move to five lug.
Find some used heads, stud them, get an Explorer upper and lower, and boost it. If you want to pull the motor then I would also pull the pan and at least check the bearings, install a new pump and stud the mains.
89ripper and 90sickfox know their stuff so pay attention. Stock cam with a turbo will make some power. If you are going to build a 331 on a stock block then you might as well boost it, break it, and then build a stroker on a good block and then boost that mofo.
Find some used heads, stud them, get an Explorer upper and lower, and boost it. If you want to pull the motor then I would also pull the pan and at least check the bearings, install a new pump and stud the mains.
89ripper and 90sickfox know their stuff so pay attention. Stock cam with a turbo will make some power. If you are going to build a 331 on a stock block then you might as well boost it, break it, and then build a stroker on a good block and then boost that mofo.
That's the thing init? It snowballs fast.
Well... If I do this then I might as well do that and these and those things too.
These are being sold again. If your engine is in good shape, has a good compression in all cylinders, and doesn't leak like a coffee filter then install one of these for the street and be done with it:
kennebell.net
It is better than your previous HCI from idle to redline. You can keep your gears too.
After that, all your lunch monies will go to suspension and brakes.
Well... If I do this then I might as well do that and these and those things too.
These are being sold again. If your engine is in good shape, has a good compression in all cylinders, and doesn't leak like a coffee filter then install one of these for the street and be done with it:
Mustang 5.0L 1986-1993 Fox Body Supercharger Kit - Kenne Bell Superchargers
Mustang 5.0L 1986-1993 Fox Body Supercharger Kit! Get the performance you've been looking for with this powerful Mustang supercharger. This state-of-the-art Ford 5.0L supercharger kit takes your
kennebell.net
It is better than your previous HCI from idle to redline. You can keep your gears too.
After that, all your lunch monies will go to suspension and brakes.
gkomo
now i can hopefully expect to receive the shaft
Sorry, i never said whats already done to it. It already has a 5lug conversion with Cobra front brakes and rear discs. The rear end is out of a SN95 GT and will have 3.31 gears. I have to keep the car CARB legal, being in California, so i believe that only leaves me a supercharger as an option.
Thats rad, i did not know those were still in production. Definitely something to consider over the Vortech.That's the thing init? It snowballs fast.
Well... If I do this then I might as well do that and these and those things too.
These are being sold again. If your engine is in good shape, has a good compression in all cylinders, and doesn't leak like a coffee filter then install one of these for the street and be done with it:
Mustang 5.0L 1986-1993 Fox Body Supercharger Kit - Kenne Bell Superchargers
Mustang 5.0L 1986-1993 Fox Body Supercharger Kit! Get the performance you've been looking for with this powerful Mustang supercharger. This state-of-the-art Ford 5.0L supercharger kit takes your
It is better than your previous HCI from idle to redline. You can keep your gears too.
After that, all your lunch monies will go to suspension and brakes.
Its not like money won't be a factor, but i did everything to my previous Fox on a young 20 year old salary. i'm almost 40 now, so this go around i want to do things 'right', and spreading mods out over time i should have the funds to do it. I'll start with the rear suspension but my plans so far are MM full length subframes, MM RLCAs, MM panhard bar, and eventually i want a MM torque arm as that was something i never got around to installing on my last Fox.
I guess the high mileage motor is what is tripping me up. But like it was said, if everything checks out then no reason to believe it won't be a good motor to throw forced induction onto.
89ripper
Founding Member
I have 186000 original miles on my motor, still stout as ever. I have no doubts it could take some more, ive treated it well. Im actually amazed considering the dumb things i did when I was younger but thanks to everyone here kept me on the up and up. Just take everyone's suggestions and check your own work, it is your car after all, you know it better than anyone else.
Now my 100000 mile LT1 in my impala? Im less confident in that!
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Will they allow GT40 heads with an Explorer upper and lower? Use the Explorer 65mm throttle body and a 93 Mustang Cobra 70mm MAF and its all FoMoCo parts that I doubt they will pay any attention to. That will get the air moving really well for a forced induction and I would think pass emissions being you will have to tune the car for the forced induction anyhow. But don't mind me I am just spending your money.
gkomo
now i can hopefully expect to receive the shaft
Good question. My previous Fox had a Pro-M MAF on the stock airbox, larger throttle body (can't remember which brand) and a TFS top end kit. I remember having a binder with printouts of all the CARB numbers for when smog time came around because i did get asked a lot about the intake manifold and heads. Thankfully those are actually CARB legal so i just handed them the printouts. I don't believe the TFS stage 1 cam is CARB legal but theres no way for them to check what cam is in there and it passed the sniffer anyways, if i recall, i just played dumb and said it was stock. They must not have questioned the MAF because those aren't CARB legal to my knowledge. But your idea of using Ford parts is a good one. Would a 65mm throttle body be big enough for a forced induction application? The 93 cobra MAF is also a good idea, i'll have to research what size injectors its paired to.
I would think that a 65mm TB on forced induction would be enough but I will defer to the guys here that are boosted.
93 Cobra MAF is not paired to injectors. The 93 Cobra ECU was set up for 24 lb/hr injectors.
You can run the 1996-2001 MAF of a GT and it’s 80mm. That is what I did on the 331 in my Coupe. There is a six wire plug on the MAF but from 96-01 the IAT is just downstream of the MAF so there is only four wires in the plug connecting to the MAF. In 2002 the IAT was integrated into the MAF at some point in the model run so then the plug had 6 wires. I have the wiring diagram to go from the Fox MAF wires to the 96-01 MAF wires. If you want to go this route I can post it or if someone else reading this does.
Again just so you understand with regards to injector sizes, MAF, and ECU’s. The OEM put fuel tables in the ECU for the factory size injectors and a mass transfer function for the MAF. So there is really no correlation between injector size and MAF in OEM situations. Pro-M and the like scale the MAF sensor to allow the use of larger injectors without a chip or tune. Seems to work okay with minor mods and smaller injectors but the absolute best way to do this is a tune.
93 Cobra MAF is not paired to injectors. The 93 Cobra ECU was set up for 24 lb/hr injectors.
You can run the 1996-2001 MAF of a GT and it’s 80mm. That is what I did on the 331 in my Coupe. There is a six wire plug on the MAF but from 96-01 the IAT is just downstream of the MAF so there is only four wires in the plug connecting to the MAF. In 2002 the IAT was integrated into the MAF at some point in the model run so then the plug had 6 wires. I have the wiring diagram to go from the Fox MAF wires to the 96-01 MAF wires. If you want to go this route I can post it or if someone else reading this does.
Again just so you understand with regards to injector sizes, MAF, and ECU’s. The OEM put fuel tables in the ECU for the factory size injectors and a mass transfer function for the MAF. So there is really no correlation between injector size and MAF in OEM situations. Pro-M and the like scale the MAF sensor to allow the use of larger injectors without a chip or tune. Seems to work okay with minor mods and smaller injectors but the absolute best way to do this is a tune.
