Does not start AGAIN, HELP!!!

[sore]

Ok, here i go again. This is the third time in about 4 months that my car (95 5.0) has killed, and will crank but not start.

The first time this happened i changed the PIP in the distributor, and the car did not start right up. It took about an hour of cranking it over and it finally started and ran great for a few weeks.

The second time this happened i let the car sit for about a week. When i deceided to start working on it, it cranked right up. Now it finally killed again.


This is what happened yesterday: When i started it, it idled fine for a few seconds, and then it killed. (My first indication that something was not right). I restarted the car and drove for about a block and it made a pop sound a few times then it killed. I restarted the car and drove into a parking lot where it killed again, and would not restart.

The only modifications that i have are x pipe-mufflers, and i removed the smog pump.


When i try to start the car it cranks over fine. I do not hear the fuel pump prime. I just hear the CCRM click a few times. I changed the fuel pump months ago. I also got another CCRM from the junkyard yesterday, and the car does the same thing.

I do not have voltage at the coil. I have not checked for voltage at the infectors this time, (last time this happened to me i did not have voltage at the injectors). The fuel pump is not priming, so i do not have fuel pressure.

I had the TFI check today. Once again it tested good. (Yes, it was tested until it was hot)

Last time this happened i tried another coil, but it still did not work. (There is no power at the coil, so its pretty obivious that it would not work but i was willing to try anything.

Any other ideas/Suggestions????

Thanks,
jeff

 

[Adam95GT]

Was the car cold when you drove it around the block... maybe an 02' is off causing your car to dump fuel and flood do you smell fuel or anything of the sort... also clean your maf... and check for vac leaks.... if you get a chance also check your fuel preasure... see if you have any it could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter

 

[sore]

I did not smell fuel. I changed the fuel filter when i changed the fuel pump about 5 months ago. I do not have any fuel pressure because the pump doesn't prime. Would a clogged filter no let the pump attempt to prime? I will try to disconnect the line going to the filter and see if the pump primes.

I also do not have voltage at the coil, if the pump does not prime would this for some reason not send power to the coil?


Whats the best way to clean the MAF?

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[1TallMF]

Sounds to me like some more serious electrical issues.

With the ignition "on", the fuel pump should prime every 15 seconds or so (on mine anyways). I would like to say it sounds like a bad CCRM, but 2 bad ones is less likely, but still possible. That wouldn't explain why you're not getting voltage at the coil though. I hate to say it, but no coil voltage and no injector firing and no pump priming, sounds to me like the ECM could be fried. I hope its not that and it turns out to be something simple like a bad ground. Keep us posted on your findings.

 

[fordtech28]

it also could be the pip in the distributor again that is what triggers the fuel pump to prime I seen them go bad as soon as a week brand new .What I did was got a reman distributor the third time since the bushing in the distributor was on its way out no noise and took out two pip sensor since it was vibrating at mid rpm so it slowly was eating the pip sensor we discovered this when we tested it with a drill .The TFI sensor can also be a factor I seen them test good when hot but when they go back in the car it wont start I used to work for a auto parts store for a while so I came across this a few times

 

[sore]

If its the ECM would it just completely stop working, or could it cut out sometimes and then start working again???

 

[sore]

Is there a way to test the PIP???

 

[sore]

If there is no easy way to test the PIP,

Do you think i can get a new PIP, and just plug it in (without actually installing it in the distributor) and see if the pump will prime when i turn the ignition on?

 

[1TallMF]

The only way I know of to test the PIP directly is to hook it up to an oscilloscope. It should give something that looks like an imperfect square wave pattern when the engine is turning. The indirect method of testing it assumes that the ECM is working properly, by checking for injector pulsing, which can be done with a noid light. The PIP is essentially a crank trigger that tells the computer at what point the engine is through the combustion cycle. My knowledge is a bit foggy as to under what conditions the computer sends the signal to the CCRM to turn the pump on, if it is indeed triggered by the PIP. However, even with a bad PIP, there should always be a 12V lead to the coil when the ignition is on. The computer works with the TFI and sends a signal to ground-out power to the coil, thus completing the circuit and generating a spark.

So a bad PIP is a possibility, but that wouldn't explain the no power to the coil issue, and doesn't necessarily explain the fuel pump not priming.

JT's pretty good with this stuff, hopefully he will chime in and elaborate more or correct me if I made any wrong statements.

 

[sore]

Just for the record:

I just checked for power to the injectors, and there is nothing.
I checked voltage at the inertia switch and the is 1.6V. I

Is there a way to pull codes without a scanner??

 

[HISSIN50]

1TMF's synopsis was very-well-put.

And his thoughts are where mine would be - that dynamic test (noid light) will not be valid until you chase some circuits because it sounds like there's an issue upstream.

All fuses are good? There's a couple which are for the EEC. I would want to confirm that you have EEC relay output (it's in the CCRM, and while the CCRM might be fine, the wiring pathways might not be).

Also when you check for 12 volts at the coil, are you testing the bias across the Coil's terminals or using a dedicated ground with your meter? Do the latter if you didnt before.

Do the same at the injectors (did you test across the injector or use a dedicated ground to look for key-on 12 volts?).

A little more clarification will help (so we're all totally on the same page - I misinterpret what people mean sometimes).

Good luck.

 

[sore]

For what it worth, I just used a noid light and got nothing.

Earlier i tested the coil (with a volt meter) & injectors (with a test light) using the battery as ground, and then jumping across both terminals, and in both cases, got nothing.

I checked the fuses yesterday, and all looked good.

How do i confirm EEC relay output??

 

[HISSIN50]

For what it worth, I just used a noid light and got nothing.

Earlier i tested the coil (with a volt meter) & injectors (with a test light) using the battery as ground, and then jumping across both terminals, and in both cases, got nothing.

I checked the fuses yesterday, and all looked good.

How do i confirm EEC relay output??

The CCRM connector has little tiny numbers on the pins. Take a look at these CCRM pins with the key-on:

5. Look for 12 volts as soon as the key is turned on.

15. Ground. Look for less than 5 ohms.

13, 24. Look for twelve volts any time the key is on.

Battery power at 8,10,11.

Look for ground on 18 as soon as the key is turned to accessory or while cranking.

Checking those should give us an idea if the CCRM is sending out what is needed for the FP and EEC relay.

Good luck.

 

[sore]

Hissin,


(used battery as my ground)

5. - No voltage when the key is turned on.

15. - 4.8 ohms

13 - 0 volts

24 - 2.04 Volts

8,10,11 - All have battery power 11.8 Volts

18- not showing anything as soon as the key is on, nothing at all from this one.

 

[HISSIN50]

Dude, that sucks.

8-11 being good tells us the battery power for the EEC relay and FP are reaching the CCRM.

5 sucking means we don't have FP power out. IIRC, 18 should show ground to energize the FP relay. Do you know how to jump the self test conncector to ground this wire? The procedure is in a Haymes manual or on Mustangworks.com's website. Try that and ohm out pin 18 again.

13 not having twelve volts sucks - that is keeping some relays from energizing (like the EEC relay). This one is really big and where I would start!

Did you already test the ignition switch (the electrical connection for the ignition)? There are some schematics in the back of the repair manual. I should be able to help later on today if needed (I gotta run right now), or one of the myriad smart folks on here can help.

Good luck.

 

[sore]

Get this,

I put the key in the on position, and started wiggling the wiring harness under the hood. Nothing happened.

Then i took the kick panel off to expose the computer, and moved the wiring harness around, and then the fuel pump kicked on. I started the car, and moved the wires around again, and the car killed.

There are three plugs with quite a few wires in them that sit just below the computer. One of the red wires in the center plug had a loose connection. I fixed the connection, and so far everything is working great!!! Hopefully this solves my problem for good.


Thanks for everyone's help.....

Jeff

 

[1TallMF]

Thats awsome man, good to hear you didn't go on madly changing parts for nothing. Free repairs are the best kind. It might not be a bad idea to disconnect the computer harness as well as the three other ones you mentionned and thoroughly clean the terminals and re-grease them. Dirt might have gotten in there over the years. Who knows.