Does the Rubber Seal Around the Front Headlights Stretch?

#21
Kilgore Trout said:
Are you talking about the gap under the leading edge of the hood? That is supposed to be there :shrug:
Click to expand...
Did you check out the picture above that Stangless posted?
That gap should not be there. It wasn't there on my car before the body shop did the repair work to my front bumper. I have the same exact gap on my Mustang just like the one in the picture above. It's not supposed to be there.
 
#22
Subscribing...same problem with wife's 01. New (Ford) headlight didn't fix it either (though I didn't intend it to - the old one had the imfamous sandblasted texture).
That is a whole nuther problem - on my 02, I have 1 headlight that is headed for sandblast city, while the other in like new...what gives?
 
#23
I went out to the garage for a quick experiment. I lifted both L-shaped" headlamp housing retainers about halfway on the passenger side. The headlamp housing dropped about 1/8" at the front and I ended up with a gap identical to that shown in Stangless' photo (about 1/8" at the tip of the fender).

The retainers are hard to lift and are flimsy. Unless the pressure is first relieved by pushing inward and upward on the housing, they bend. A little WD-40 helped as well.

I can now see that it would be very easy to bend or break a retainer if excessive force were used. In addition, the support member, to which the lamp housings are retained, is thin and fairly easily distorted/flexed as well.

Your problem is probably a bent/damaged retainer or flexed mounting point. It would be easy to remove a housing and adjust the mount (ever so slightly) with a pry bar. If you bend it too far, you will end up with a gap at the rearmost end of the housing instead. Place a towel on the bumper cover to avoid scratches when you withdraw the housing.
 
#24
Exactly what does the "support member mount" look like? Do you have a picture of it? Is it metal, fiberglass or plastic?
The last time that I remember seeing what was behind the headlight assembly was when the body shop had both headlight units off the car and the front grill and the front bumper off the car. I remember seeing a fiberglass frame running across between the 2 front fenders. I am not sure, but I think that both headlight units fit into each of the headlight sockets inside the fiberglass frame. I don't remember seeing anything above or below the headlight socket which can bend.
Please pinpoint to me exactly where the "support member mount" located? And exactly "WHERE" on the "support member mount" do I need to re-bend it back into shape? Are you sure that it can be re-bent back to its original position? I am afraid that the body shop might not want to touch this area that you are talking about if the "support member mount" is going to snap off or break easily if they try to re-bend it back into its original location. What do you think? If you have a picture it would be easier to see what you are talking about here. A picture would be worth a thousand words.
Thanks
 
#26
n0v8or said:
See for pic: http://www.partstrain.com/products/...ORD~MUSTANG~8~4.6~MUST-GT-005.html?sku=FD5210

I'll check if my header panel is steel or fiberglass. If not metal, a shim at a mounting point might be a better approach than bending.

Whatever the body shop did to create the gap can likely be compensated for, except for a damaged or broken part, which can be replaced.
Click to expand...
I am not 100% sure, but that header panel looks like it's made from fiberglass.
That's the panel that runs across the front of the car between the 2 front fenders which I was referring to and trying to describe in my previous post. I noticed that the header panel has a flat platform inside the headlight socket where the headlight unit sits on. Is that the part which you were referring to as maybe being bent causing the headlight unit to droop downwards causing the gap between the front corner of the fender and the black headlight seal gasket? I remember inspecting the flat base of the headlight socket where the headlight unit sits in when my car was in the body shop and I didn't notice the base of the headlight socket being cracked or broken anywhere unless the body shop technician broke or bent something when they reassembled the front bumper, grill and headlight units back on the car. And if they did damage anything, they are currently putting a blind eye on this by telling me that the headlight units were put back on correctly.
Do you really think that the header panel is what's really causing the gap?
What else on the header panel could be causing the problem if nothing inside the headlight socket is cracked or broken?
 
#28
Kilgore Trout said:
I think it is pointless to endlessly stress out about this. You already have an appointment at the body shop to get it corrected. Damn dude...
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You don't understand. The body shop cannot do nothing about the gap. They said that they took off and put back on the headlight units for a second time and that they put them on correctly. They are also telling me that the headlight units are on correctly and that they are unable to adjust them anymore. They will not take off the headlight units again.

I am going to take back my Mustang to them to get the orange peel off the bottom part of the bumper where the air dam is. I am also going to address the bubble that I see underneath the paint on the bumper in front of the driver's side headlamp and the roughness on the front bumper underneath the paint on the passenger side just underneath the amber colored light.
They are not going to touch the headlight units again. They told me that the headlight units are on correctly, so I don't know what to do now about this problem? It's bugging me because I know it's there. To me, it's an eyesore.
 
#30
Yes, the header panel is fiberglass on my '03.
I can take the slop out of my headlight housings just by shimming the retaining clips with a several layers of electrical tape on the flat side, and/or shimming between the top of the bumper cover and 4 projecting tabs on the bottom of the housing.

See this pic:
http://members.cox.net/n0v8or/headlight_cavity.jpg
The 4 retainer slots pass through holes in the header and then a metal retainer slides down to lock them in place. Each retainer passes through 2 slots.

4 projecting tabs molded to the bottom of the lamp housing ride on the bumper cover tabs . . . if they are high enough. Note how they are on top of the apron. This could be where the body shop went wrong. In any case, you should be able to raise the housing at the front by shimming some of the tabs with foam tape.
 
#31
n0v8or said:
4 projecting tabs molded to the bottom of the lamp housing ride on the bumper cover tabs . . . if they are high enough. Note how they are on top of the apron. This could be where the body shop went wrong. In any case, you should be able to raise the housing at the front by shimming some of the tabs with foam tape.
Click to expand...
Do you think the cause of gap problem is because the body shop didn't put the bumper tabs on correctly on to the projecting tabs which are molded on the bottom of the lamp housing socket when they put the front bumper back on the car? What do you think that the bumper cover tabs are currently doing to cause the gap?
Do you think that the bumper cover tabs are not on correctly on to the projecting tabs on the bottom part of the headlamp housing socket causing the gap? Do you think that the bumper cover tabs are out of place and not snapped into place together with the projecting tabs on the bottom part of the lamp housing socket? How can the problem be corrected without having to put foam tape under the bumper tabs?
Another thing here is that I only see 2 bumper cover tabs connecting to the bottom of the lamp housing socket in the picture. Are there supposed to be 3 or 4 bumper cover tabs which are supposed to attach on the tabs which are molded on the bottom of the lamp housing socket on each headlight housing?
I don't see the other 3rd or 4th tab in the picture. Is the headlight unit in the way covering the other tabs?
 
#32
There are 4 vertical projections (sort of like the keel board of a small sailboat) on the bottom of the headlight housing. You can't see these in the pic. If the retaining clips fit loosely, or some of the slots are broken (they are very thin, flimsy plastic), the projections will rest on the bumper cover tabs. If the retainers are nice and tight, there wil be a gap between the projections and the bumper cover. In the latter case, the headlight housing is hung in place only by the header.

This is a really poor design. Shimming the projections or bumper cover so the housing rests on the "shelf" would be much more secure. I've already shimmed my passenger side, and will do the driver's side tomorrow. It's an easy do-it-yourself job.
 
#33
n0v8or said:
There are 4 vertical projections (sort of like the keel board of a small sailboat) on the bottom of the headlight housing. You can't see these in the pic. If the retaining clips fit loosely, or some of the slots are broken (they are very thin, flimsy plastic), the projections will rest on the bumper cover tabs. If the retainers are nice and tight, there wil be a gap between the projections and the bumper cover. In the latter case, the headlight housing is hung in place only by the header.

This is a really poor design. Shimming the projections or bumper cover so the housing rests on the "shelf" would be much more secure. I've already shimmed my passenger side, and will do the driver's side tomorrow. It's an easy do-it-yourself job.
Click to expand...
So what you are saying here is that when the headlight unit was put back on my Mustang that the metal retaining clips might have stretched out or even opened up the plastic retainer slots just a little bit giving the metal retaining clips a loose fit and causing the 4 vertical projections underneath the headlight housing unit to rest on the bumper cover tabs instead of allowing a gap to exist between the vertical projections and the bumper cover? In other words, the vertical projections underneath the headlight unit from the weight of the headlight unit rest on the bumper cover tabs. Is this correct?
Do you think that this is the real true cause of the gap between the top part of the headlight unit and the front pointed part of the front fender?

So, if the retainer slot is cheap flimsy plastic causing the metal retainer to have a loose fit inside it then nothing can be done to repair it except by shimming by putting something between the underneath part of the headlight unit's vertical projections and the bumper cover? Is that correct?
I haven't touched the metal retainers on the headlight unit, but the body shop owner told me that they are on tight. Is it possible that if the metal retainers are on tight that the problem might be the plastic retainer slots on the headlight unit? Could the plastic retainer slots have opened up or stretched themselves from the metal retainer clips being pulled out and then put back into the headlight housing retainer slots again after the repairs were done?

Also, is it better to shimmy something ONLY underneath the bottom part of the headlamp housing unit under the vertical projections and NOT underneath the bumper cover tabs? If something is shimmied under the headlight unit's vertical projections, will you be able to see what you shimmied under the vertical projections if you stand in front of the car and look directly into the gap between the bottom part of the headlight unit and the top part of the bumper?
Or is it better to shimmy something ONLY underneath the bottom part of the headlight housing socket? Which one of the two options is a better fix solution?
Also, I may be wrong about this, but I assume that nothing should be shimmied under the bumper cover tabs because if this happens, the bumper cover tabs will not be able to be secured into place on to the bottom part of the headlight housing socket...is this correct?
Please understand that I'm trying to cover all my bases towards finding the cause of the gap problem and I'm also trying to find the best fix solution here and that''s why I'm asking all these questions in full detail.
 
#34
I think the root cause will become apparent once you pull one of the headlight housings and see for yourself how they are retained in place. I sense you are reluctant, but this is as good a time as any to learn. Tuck one end a old shirt or towel onto the gap between the housing and bumper cover, then drape it over the cover, to eliminate any concerns about scratching (though it sounds like from your description that the cover will have to be stripped and repainted to correct workmanship flaws).

I would put broken plastic retainer slots at the top of my guess list, now that I have seen how thin they are (~ 1/16"). The retainer clips are metal and will not break easily.

See if you can move the headlight assembly upward by pushing on the lens (a suction cup helps), closing the gap temporarily. If yes, shims at the bottom will work. If no, the housing is mounted securely but in the wrong place relative to the fender tip. The tip of the fender might have been twisted upward. Are the tops of the fenders and hood aligned well at the front edge?

Note that the end of the lamp housing with the parking/turn signal bulb is prevented from moving laterally by two pins that engage with holes as you push the housing back into place. Too bad Ford didn't use that same method at the top and bottom.

Even with a flashlight, I cannot see into the gap between the housing and bumper cover. So I would not be concerned about shims being visible.

f the bodyshop isn't competent enough to figure this out, or admit to what they did wrong, I would not trust anything they say.
 
#36
UPDATE!!
I drove by the body shop today and I met with the owner. I asked him about the plastic retainer slots and he told me that the plastic retainer slots on my headlight unit are all in good shape and that they are not damaged in any way. He also told me that he inspected the headlight assembly units before he put them back into the header panel sockets and none of them had any damage on the plastic retainer slots. They are not damaged in any way.

I then mentioned to him about having him put a shimming like foam tape on the projection tabs which are located underneath the headlight unit to fix the gap problem. The body shop owner told me that he does NOT want to take off the headlight assembly units again for the fear of scratching the bumper again. The last time that he pulled the headlight assembly unit off he accidently scratched the bumper and he had to repaint a section on the right side of the bumper all over again all around the right passenger side headlight unit. I told him what you guys told me in here about placing a cloth or something soft underneath the headlight unit so that the bumper wouldn't get scratched while it is being pulled out and he told me that it's almost impossible to fit a cloth or a towel underneath such a cramped space under the headlight unit. He told me that he is not going to pull the headlight unit out again for fear of scratching the bumper again. He doesn't want to do any damage and have to repaint the bumper again like he had to earlier.

Another thing that the body shop owner mentioned to me is that a shimming will NOT help the problem. It will do nothing but "CHAFE" the paint OFF on the bumper and within a year the paint will come off the bumper. I told him that others in here use shimming as a fix solution. When I told him this he said that shimming will cause the paint to "chafe off" and that it's not a good fix alternative. I cannot convince him that shimming is going to work. He is against shimming anything between the headlight unit and the bumper.

ALSO, he mentioned to me that the gap problem might be caused because the headlight assembly unit may need an adjustment. I would like to know whether or not there are any screws on the headlight assembly unit which can be used to adjust the headlight unit? If the plastic retainer slots are undamaged, do you think that the gap is caused because the headlight assembly units need adjustment?

I also mentioned to the body shop owner about the scaliness underneath the paint that exists on the entire driver's right side of the bumper just underneath the amber lights and I told him about the oval shaped lump underneath the paint on the driver's left side of the bumper just underneath the headlight unit. He told me to bring back the car on Monday, Dec. 4th and that he will take a look at everything for me to see what he can do.

I am hoping that someone in here can enlighten this subject further and tell me "what else" the gap problem can be caused from if all the plastic retainer slots on the headlight assembly unit are undamaged and currently in good shape? For right now, it's been confirmed by the body shop owner that it's not the plastic retainer slots on the headlight unit which is causing the gap to appear between the top of the headlight unit and the front pointed part of the front fender. Also, the header panel is not damaged in any way. So, if the plastic headlight retainer slots, and the headlight assembly unit and the header panel is not damaged in any way and if the metal retainer pod clips are clipped on correctly, what else can be the problem that causes the gap?
I am trying to do the process of elimination to pinpoint exactly what the cause of the gap problem is and from whre it is coming from.
 
#38
Kilgore Trout said:
I am so sick of this damn thread :bang: :Zip2: :flame:
Click to expand...

+1

If you were only mechanically inclined as much as your ability to write descriptive lengthy posts, you would have had this problem solved a long time ago. I can remove my headlights BLINDFOLDED and DRUNK and in 2 minutes without damaging the bumper cover. All your headlights probably need is a little shim between the top headlight slot and the radiator support beam to pitch them up a little bit.

Stop being a p***y and give it a try.
 
#40
DaNd4Speed said:
+1

If you were only mechanically inclined as much as your ability to write descriptive lengthy posts, you would have had this problem solved a long time ago. I can remove my headlights BLINDFOLDED and DRUNK and in 2 minutes without damaging the bumper cover. All your headlights probably need is a little shim between the top headlight slot and the radiator support beam to pitch them up a little bit.

Stop being a p***y and give it a try.
Click to expand...

:lol:
i can't get through alot of these long ass posts...
 
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