Don't look back!

DBMSTNG · Aug 30, 2004

why does Ford use old styling cues? simple, heritage. if it looked like a Civic, it wouldn't be a Mustang, now would it? the 05 is far from low tech. i'm beginning to think this razer fool is a troll.

M1Rifle · Aug 30, 2004

Wylde said:
Haven't posted for a long time...reason mainly is because after renting a 2004 Mustang for a week, decided to wait for some simple cheap and modern things to make their way into Ford products. I totally love the look of the 05 Mustang but because of the lack of these small things I will not buy one.

1. Retained power when the key is off. It's a cheap simple timer that when you turn the key off, providing you don't open any doors you can still run every electrical thing in the car for about 15 minutes.
2. AUTOMATIC HEADLIGHTS...come on now a 2 cent diode, why have a stupid light switch that can be forgotten on to kill you battery.
3. Battery run down protection. After you have forgetten to turn off your headlights and it kills your battery, you will see how great such a cheap feature is so usefull. It's a small circuit that monitors the battery charge and if it sees a continuous reduction it turns off all left on powered things (like headlights) usually takes about 40 minutes on average (tested on my 98 S10)

I could go on and on. Fords has done a great job with designing a totally cool car, but it needs to get into the modern age and offer some simple pleasures that cost nearly nothing to include into each and every car/truck. All of these things have been available on GM car/trucks for a minimum of 10 years, maybe more. I don't know if Dodge has this since I have never driven a Dodge product in my life (and I likely never will).

It's not called "Retained Power", it's called "Accessory Delay", and the '05 has it. From page 45 of the owners manual:

Accessory delay
With accessory delay, the window switches and radio may be used for up
to ten minutes after the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position or
until any door or trunk is opened.

Automatic headlamps are a nice feature. Ford has them on other vehicles. Don't try to make it look like Ford doesn't offer these features.

The Mustang is a simple vehicle. I don't want to see them pimp it out any more than it already is. What are you trying to make it into, a flippin' GTO or something? (grin)

SVTdriver · Aug 30, 2004

Just in case someone doesn't want to read the whole page. Here is a quick summary.

Young person who is not in the typical demographic of V8 mustang buyers complains about styling and says noone will buy it. Same as the last 95 threads. Just another case of the young not knowing how to use the search function.

As far as the retro style. You say you don't like it. But then mention the 350Z. Which was styled directly after the old 70's 240Z. I wonder why you like it. But not the mustang.

one2gamble · Aug 30, 2004

I always get a kick out of it when people try and claim the 350 isnt retro, its just as retro as the 05 stang. Just because you didnt know the 240 existed doesnt make the 350 not retro. Sometimes I wonder about people. The 350 takes cues from virtually every generation of z car including the 300.

Tzar · Aug 30, 2004

Retro-styling

Everything i've read about the 350z hasn't been that wonderful. however it does look cool. And so does the 2005 Mustang. I think most modern cars look like crap to be honest and I'm 22. They lack character of the old 60's and 70's cars. Bring on the retro-styling I say. If Ford went and made the Mustang look like a Jappa then it wouldn't be a Mustang. Razer81 you're a fool man, the mustangs never been about cheap asian gimmicks and trinkets. It's about muscle and 4 wheels and tough looks.
Read the comments here and count how many people agree with you!

2005muzzy · Aug 30, 2004

Razer81 said:
Why can't Ford design a Mustang for the 21st century to compete with more advanced and more high-tech vehicles of now adays? Not to mention, WAY BETTER LOOKING TOO. Why did they go back on a design of the '60s/'70s! The car looks so outdated! It has no independant rear suspension! The styling of the '60s looks so ugly compared to the 21st century-designs of cars like the Nissan Z, Infiniti G35, Dodge Viper, BMW M3 and so on. I sold Fords for about 2 years before becoming disgusted by the crapy quality of those cars! I used to love the Mustang, but after seeing first hand how many of those pile of junks had to be put in to the service department to adjust or fix problems found when the cars first arrived from the factory before they could be put out on the lot for sale. Plese Ford! Think of the future! Most of the hot-rodders from the '60s and '70s are approaching that age where they will no longer be with us. Please keep up with the times and DON'T LOOK BACK as if you have ran out of desings or ideas, that you have to start making cars looking like your old ones! I'm a 23 Y.O. gear head, please don't make me look for an Import car (I'm currently considering the G35 Coupe, or the Z). Design something with some technology and good looks that my generation will wanna buy! Is that too much to ask??!!

although I don't agree with you at all I'll give you this.When I was your age I loved my new 89 mustang gt and when the new style came out in 1994 ,I hated the look and wondered whey ford would do such a thing. Well I fell in love some time after just to hate the new style in 2001 thinking my 95 cobra looks way better. Well Now I love the the cars such as the 2003 cobra. I think some people have the same feeling when something drasticlly different comes out . In time, I bet you look back you'll grin to the fact that you hated the new style.

Wylde · Aug 30, 2004

M1Rifle said:
It's not called "Retained Power", it's called "Accessory Delay", and the '05 has it. From page 45 of the owners manual:

Accessory delay
With accessory delay, the window switches and radio may be used for up
to ten minutes after the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position or
until any door or trunk is opened.

Automatic headlamps are a nice feature. Ford has them on other vehicles. Don't try to make it look like Ford doesn't offer these features.

The Mustang is a simple vehicle. I don't want to see them pimp it out any more than it already is. What are you trying to make it into, a flippin' GTO or something? (grin)

Accessory delay? hmmm the 04 Mustang I rented didn't have that all. As for the other items I mentioned...they are very simple and cheap to include. I don't want Mustang to be a GTO because I don't like the GTO and I do like the Mustang. These items I mentioned are on all GM cars, even the butt ugly Aveo and you cannot get any simpler a car than that stupid looking clown car.

Aftrbrnr · Aug 30, 2004

Retro is just a trend now in the automotive industry. Eventually, after Ford has tired through this next platform they will have to build a Mustang with an all-new body that has nothing in common with the classics - face it, you can't build a Mustang that looks like a 1968 model for the next 30 years, people will tire of it. The above assumes that the Mustang will be made long enough to see another new platform after the 05 one, which I am very positive it will happen.

As for technology, everyone seems to hate the solid rear-axle. It's great for the drag-strip warriors, and there's a large following of that in the Mustang crowd. However, I'd like to see the Mustang break the stereotype that it's only good for going fast. Minus the IRS Cobras, the Mustang's handling is subpar when compared to other cars in its class. It's better then your average passenger non-performance car but it's lacking on its own level. It'd be nice to see an IRS option later on for other models then the Cobra, for those who really like turning.

I really, really want to see a base-model V8 version with no options. This will help make the car more affordable, as I think a reason why some kids turn to imports is the Mustang's initial class. It's been awhile since we've seen a Mustang with no A/C, power windows, ABS, radio, power mirrors, etc. Cut away all the crap for the people that just want balls to the walls action and nothing more.

MCABOSS · Aug 30, 2004

One foot in the grave!!!

Razer81 said:
Think of the future! Most of the hot-rodders from the '60s and '70s are approaching that age where they will no longer be with us. Please keep up with the times and DON'T LOOK BACK as if you have ran out of desings or ideas, that you have to start making cars looking like your old ones! I'm a 23 Y.O. gear head, please don't make me look for an Import car (I'm currently considering the G35 Coupe, or the Z). Design something with some technology and good looks that my generation will wanna buy! Is that too much to ask??!!

Sounds like you have already made the decision to buy some import junk! The Mustang design is timeless and has stood the test of time. I doubt that any of the cars you hold in such high esteme will be still be around in 20 years let alone 40!!! You spend your 50K on a BMW, Mercedes or Z piece of junk and you can kiss your money goodbye. Not all Mustangs are investments but those folks that bought a Mustang back in the 60's or 70's paid as little as 2500 and today they average 10K for a good driver. Some Mustangs like the Shelby's and BOSS's are worth many times more. Go to any car show and you'll find the older stangs command a lot of attention - even after 40 years. Don't bother bringing a "Z." The Mustang is a car you can keep "a life time" if you want - parts will be available in 40 years. Will the parts be there in the future for the cars on your "A" list? We'll see! Pardon me if I don't buy a grave plot just yet!

Omegalock · Aug 30, 2004

Crap SVTDriver beat me to the punch. But I also wanted to comment on the BMW thing as well...BMWs while distinctly new also share a good bit looks wise with their older incarnations. Case in point anybody seen that comercial with the farmer having an old BMW sitting in his barn the young Yuppie guy grinning ear to ear buying the thing and the old farmer zooming by in a newer BMW...that from the front is very similar to the older version?

Need anyone be reminded of what the Mustang was going to be turned into if the more "Asian" look was applied to the car? Would anybody want to be cruising around in an all new 05 Ford Probe with a mighty 3 liter V6 and FWD?

I'll take the car that oozes Americana from ever body line and angle and that would be the live axle 300 horsepower 05 Mustang GT thank you very much.
This car will be just as much car as the 350Z etc...but for a whole helluva lot less money. When the Charger makes an appearance I'll bet you good money it will have very retro cues to it just as the other two offerings from the Daimler Chrysler camp with the 300C and the Magnum. These 3-4 cars are pushing American design back into it's own unique vein. They aren't emulating and copying Japanese design and styling which in turn is copying European design and styling and that's IS a good thing.
And another thing all the people bitching about it being too retro blah blah blah...if the past Mustang history is any indication the car could look substantially different in 3-4 years anyway so relax.

Omegalock · Aug 30, 2004

Aftrbrnr said:
Retro is just a trend now in the automotive industry. Eventually, after Ford has tired through this next platform they will have to build a Mustang with an all-new body that has nothing in common with the classics - face it, you can't build a Mustang that looks like a 1968 model for the next 30 years, people will tire of it. The above assumes that the Mustang will be made long enough to see another new platform after the 05 one, which I am very positive it will happen.

No you can't but what is the harm in building a car that pays homage to it's heritage for 3-4 years right after the car turns 40 years old? The car that started it all is the only one still being made after all these years and giving the old design a little love and a 21st century twist to it is perfectly acceptable and I think sales will bear that out.

As for technology, everyone seems to hate the solid rear-axle. It's great for the drag-strip warriors, and there's a large following of that in the Mustang crowd. However, I'd like to see the Mustang break the stereotype that it's only good for going fast. Minus the IRS Cobras, the Mustang's handling is subpar when compared to other cars in its class. It's better then your average passenger non-performance car but it's lacking on its own level. It'd be nice to see an IRS option later on for other models then the Cobra, for those who really like turning.

And you'll likely get that on the special edition Stangs. But this is the problem with the solid axle is evil thing. When driving 90% of the time a well sorted live axle is not so bad that it is distracting to the point of being a deal breaker. You are getting a BUNCH for 25k and if the guys developing the 05 are telling the truth this new rear suspension setup will be more than passable for vigorous driving in the turns and pleasant enough drive under normal circumstances.

I really, really want to see a base-model V8 version with no options. This will help make the car more affordable, as I think a reason why some kids turn to imports is the Mustang's initial class. It's been awhile since we've seen a Mustang with no A/C, power windows, ABS, radio, power mirrors, etc. Cut away all the crap for the people that just want balls to the walls action and nothing more.

That is for the drag racers and to be honest the kids going for the cheap imports aren't that kind of person anymore that wants a stripped down car. These are guys who are my age or younger who BARELY remember crank down windows and 8 track radios if that at all. Most of them remember cars with AM/FM casette players, A/C power almost everything and many probably BARELY remember cars without airbags. You try to sell a stripped down car to those kids and they will take the full equiped car that's slower for the same price every time. The people that would be buying a car like that would be the kind of guys that likely would have the car tubbed within a years time anyway and it likely wouldn't attract a younger demographic. The guys that are into the compact scene are slowly but surely going with more upscale and more powerful vehicles. They are learning. While the GT isn't going to be sitting in high school parking lots in droves it will be populating the drive ways of numerous compact racers worth their salt who can look at the total package of the GT and realize it's worth the money. In fact I was just talking to a guy today who has a Lancer OZ Rallyart about the 05 GT. Started rambling of the tech specs and cost and he said that he would likely be looking into one when he got ready to replace his car. Just takes a little friendly education...that or a few savage rapings on the street or strip and they will start to come around.

SVTdriver · Aug 30, 2004

Aftrbrnr said:
As for technology, everyone seems to hate the solid rear-axle. It's great for the drag-strip warriors, and there's a large following of that in the Mustang crowd. However, I'd like to see the Mustang break the stereotype that it's only good for going fast. Minus the IRS Cobras, the Mustang's handling is subpar when compared to other cars in its class. It's better then your average passenger non-performance car but it's lacking on its own level. It'd be nice to see an IRS option later on for other models then the Cobra, for those who really like turning.

I really, really want to see a base-model V8 version with no options. This will help make the car more affordable, as I think a reason why some kids turn to imports is the Mustang's initial class. It's been awhile since we've seen a Mustang with no A/C, power windows, ABS, radio, power mirrors, etc. Cut away all the crap for the people that just want balls to the walls action and nothing more.

I think you lost me there. You want IRS. But no frills base model with no options or "crap"? Then why get the more expensive rear suspension?

And as far as the mustang's handling being subpar. Past years yes I can aagree to some extent. But since noone has really wrung this car out. I don't think it is fair to say it is subpar yet.

Toppel · Aug 30, 2004

MCABOSS said:
Sounds like you have already made the decision to buy some import junk! The Mustang design is timeless and has stood the test of time. I doubt that any of the cars you hold in such high esteme will be still be around in 20 years let alone 40!!! You spend your 50K on a BMW, Mercedes or Z piece of junk and you can kiss your money goodbye. Not all Mustangs are investments but those folks that bought a Mustang back in the 60's or 70's paid as little as 2500 and today they average 10K for a good driver. Some Mustangs like the Shelby's and BOSS's are worth many times more. Go to any car show and you'll find the older stangs command a lot of attention - even after 40 years. Don't bother bringing a "Z." The Mustang is a car you can keep "a life time" if you want - parts will be available in 40 years. Will the parts be there in the future for the cars on your "A" list? We'll see! Pardon me if I don't buy a grave plot just yet!

Who are you to say what car will be worth more 40 years down the road!! Dont hate on the 350 just becasue it beat your arse last Friday, and looked good while doing it.

I am debating on buying the 05 GT or a 05 350 Z, I think both are great performance cars and will not be forgoten in the long term.

jadesville · Aug 30, 2004

Toppel said:
Who are you to say what car will be worth more 40 years down the road!! Dont hate on the 350 just becasue it beat your arse last Friday, and looked good while doing it.

I am debating on buying the 05 GT or a 05 350 Z, I think both are great performance cars and will not be forgoten in the long term.

Mossberg · Aug 31, 2004

I'm waiting on the 2015 Mustang Fox body retro design with a 5.0 HO 3v Modular in it that runs on Hydrogen!

I'll be first in line!

Or maybe I'll wait until 2025 when I'll get the New Edge retro design of my current car with a 4.6 5v super modular cammer engine with warp 5 capability!

Sean`03///Zed4 · Aug 31, 2004

Sorry but I have to say the exact opposite as far as the styling for the new Mustang goes. I have to give 5 thumps up to Ford for standing up on this one and actually producing some thing which is good looking even if it's from the past. I think beauty or style does not matter when it appears and are timeless. Remember Ford could have picked any styling cue between 64 1/2 and 72 but they went for the pure Chase Mustang.

This style is a big hit today in European countries like England, Germany and the 64 1/2 Mustang is the only car in the world which has the distinction of selling 22000+ cars in one day & that being the very first day of its introduction. No other car company to this day has come close to this number, not BMW Honda Toyota Porsche or Rolls Royce. A timeless world record owned by the Mustang.

As a matter of fact I was getting tired of looking at all these sheepish pumpkin shaped cars with these angled headlights from Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. It's not modern; it's forcing something to the consumer. The new Toyota Camry, the thing is hideous, it's not modern, if it is I would rather be in the sixties. The Nissan 350 Z; what's the deal with those angular tail lamps or the headlights which take up half the hood; the lexus IS 300; the little blob of a hump in the hood, the wimpy 215 40 17 tyres, the cheesy clear lamps...that's not modern, that's just not good taste....

Or the Honda Civic; what's the deal with Honda and Toyota trying to emulate Mercedes Benz in forming the alphabet 'C' in the rear tail light and NOT really doing a good job at it.

Ford, Chrysler, Porsche have done good in stepping up to it...I would say this is the trend to be set as far as design goes and this is the trend car manufacturers should follow, i.e. design cars as an automobile not as a symbol.

SVTdriver · Aug 31, 2004

Toppel said:
Who are you to say what car will be worth more 40 years down the road!! Dont hate on the 350 just becasue it beat your arse last Friday, and looked good while doing it.

I am debating on buying the 05 GT or a 05 350 Z, I think both are great performance cars and will not be forgoten in the long term.

While I am not going to bash on the 350Z's styling (You can look through my past posts to find why I did not buy one). We have to be honest about things
1. The Z car did retire from the scene for a while. Doesn't matter why it did. It did go away. The Mustang on the other hand has not. Yes they did try to terminate it. But ultimately were unsuccessful
2. This is going to be one of the few times I will not do the research. But my guess is this. You can likely buy most of the Z cars for less than a Mustang of the same vintage and condition. Now it may not be a lot less. But I am guessing that it is less.
3. While I am sure the Z has not been forgotten. How many car shows are held every year in about every state. Dedicated to ONLY the Z. Yet there are multiple shows in probably every state for the mustang. Some that run only one day. But some that have activities and events going on for most of a week.
4. Don't make assumptions that a 350Z beat any mustang. It may or may not win a race against a stang.
Finally while I am sure that the Z cars will not be forgotten. I am also equally sure. That they will never be as popular.

RICKS · Aug 31, 2004

Good art and design is timeless, and the original Mustang is a worldwide icon in that respect. For further evidence, all one needs to do is look at Porsche (objectively folks, as this site can tend to be so fanatically Ford, that Stevie Wonder would have a more valid opinion). The Mustang design is timeless as well, and Ford had strayed pretty far away from the original theme. The new '05 gets them back on track, where they should have been all along. I'm not suggesting we should just bring back the identical 60's style. Besides, the new '05 IS NOT simply a replica. I believe it looks THOROUGHLY modern. It looks just like you would expect the Mustang to have evolved over time, if Ford had never gone off course starting in 1979 with a Mustang that virtually abandoned every single piece of styling heritage they had. A brand new 911 looks thoroughly modern and cutting edge today while at the same time being a thoughtful and wonderful evolution of the original timeless design theme, especially if you park one next to a current Vette. That's proper evolution of a timeless design. Even though the new C6 looks O.K., they lost the balance and the art and the beauty of the 63-67 Stingrays long long ago, and now it's just a "bargain" performance car, not a car that you can stare at for endless hours like the old ones were. Like it or hate it, the new Mustang is a car that grabs your eye's attention and holds it there, just like the original did. I don't think we can honestly say that about the '04. The outgoing cars are great looking, no doubt, but timeless and iconic? Naww. My bet is that Ford is getting back on track for the long haul with the Mustang. They designed it to look like a 2005 version of what the Mustang would have naturally evolved into had the '79 car never been drawn on a sheet of paper. And they'll evolve from there, much like Porsche has with the 911, keeping it modern and fresh, but not tossing the baby out with the bathwater when they upgrade the design, just like the 911. Sounds silly to compare a $70,000 car with a $20,000 car, but in theory, I think it works. The Mustang deserves to be treated as a legend (it's even more of a legend than the 911, by a longshot), not as a trend-follower like the imports are. That's why the Mustang will survive, and the Imports will constantly be changing names and faces as they always have. And please, if anyone else gets this notion that new Mustang V8 buyers are primarily 18-24 year olds, Puhleez, pull your young head out of your ars and think for a second. For every parking lot on a Saturday night with 10-15 V-8 Mustangs driven by young people hanging and cruising, there's 200 V-8 Mustangs in the hands of older people with better things to do (and most with the means and ability to modify their cars to whoop your little 13 second tails, if you'd just get the cojones to visit the strip ). There's a world out there beyond your little shortsighted universe. Go buy your relatively slow, and expensive/difficult to modify, Nissan/Infiniti 350Z/G35. My 61 year old Mom drives a new 350Z 6-speed with NISMO exhaust. So you and your 23 year old buddies can race her, and she'll probably nail you at the line given her previous NHRA super stock experience in her 10-second '69 SS Camaro drag car. Kids......

Wylde · Aug 31, 2004

good writing RICKS...althought I posted that I will not be getting a 2005 Mustang (I may still end up with a 2007 or 08) I agree 110% with everything you said. Mustang will always be dear to my heart because the very first car I ever owned was a 1968 Coupe. The design of the 2005 Mustang brought back so many great memories and for the first time since that time I wanted a Mustang again. The new Mustang design is NOT a COOKIE CUTTER design like 90% of what is on the roads today. It will be with out a doubt, noticeable to what it is...pure Mustang. I will be drooling as I seen them drive past me. I will not be buying a 2005 mainly because I retired my old truck and bought a new one, now I have to wait a little longer.

ruffy · Aug 31, 2004

I'm 44 and just recently sold my '97 GT only because a drunk driver crashed into me and when it was repaired it just wasn't the same. The work they did putting it back together was awesome and it drove great but it was a good excuse to buy the '05. I think the '05 looks great and I would rather have it than two Supra's. My '97 gave me 7 great years of fun zooming down the autobahn at 145 MPH and it was never in the shop for nothing except oil changes, tire balance, and headlight adj and when my '05 arrives it's going to be glorious. Other than tires and filters all the parts were original. I'll buy a Mustang any day. Call me old fashioned if you will but I think that retro look is hot

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