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Drag Radials: Nite And Day Difference?

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  • Start date Start date Feb 2, 2017
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cleanLX

Founding Member
Jan 17, 2001
976
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Feb 3, 2017
#21
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #21
Here's my experience with drag radials... I make 368rwhp/363rwtq through a high strung n/a 306, so I don't have the tq off the hit like you do.
On the street I could not go to the floor in 1st gear without breaking traction, really had to roll into it easy to stay hooked up and never did get to the rug without tire spin. In second if I rolled the throttle down nice and smooth it would stay hooked up, but, if I stuck the throttle in the carpet it would break loose at about 4500rpm. If I shifted hard into 3rd it would spin the tires hard/long enough to require steering correction, if I I rolled into 3rd for a split second then went to the floor it would stay hooked up. I could hit 4th full on and it would only spin a tiny bit then hook up.
So that's on the street. Much better than regular radials, but not what most make dr's out to be.
At the track, with a T5. I forget my race weight, but, it's something like 3340.
Drag radials were a pain in the butt. I either spun, or bogged if just trying to dump the clutch at various rpm. When the tires spun they did not recover well at all. You need to get fully out of the throttle then get back into it. The bogs as you can imagine were violent (radials do not absorb shock all that well, more in a bit) and when it spun forward motion was slow. It took a real fancy hold rpms while slipping the clutch and rolling the throttle down tap dance that was hard to duplicate and easy to miss. Poor consistency and wasted runs were plenty. My 60' were all over the board, anything from a low 1.8's to 2.1's
So, if this is going to be a track set of tires only...
I ditched the dr's at the track and went back to a bias ply "cheater slick".
Instant success. The bias ply absorbs the shock of the clutch dump making the launches much quicker and less violent at the same time. Even on a poor starting line, when the bias tie would spin, it would still move the car out hard and the tire will recover all on it's own, just stay in the gas and let them gather themselves up. My 60's went from previously stated to low/mid 1.6's. Simply dump the clutch and go.

DR's certainly can be very effective at the track, but it takes a well set up chassis, convertor or slipper clutch (not good on the street) to make them work. For the guys that have the time to test, test and test some more and the finances to make adjustments (springs, shocks, convertors, clutches) to dial it all in, DR's can work really well.
I'm over all that. When I go to the track, I want to air down, heat them up and let it rip.
So, my opinion is leave DR's for street duty and the guys racing competitive classes, for the weekend warrior with a stick car, go bias, either cheater or full slick depending on if you want to drive your car to the track or swap wheels at the track.
 
Reactions: A5literMan, RangerJoe and 90lxwhite

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#22
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #22
Gear grabber said:
Now it makes sense,vortech + B springs,3.73's and short sidewall tires. A near perfect recipe for tire spin.

A few years ago when i got my fox,the first thing it needed was a complete suspension overhaul. For the most part i chose wisely....except for the ford B springs. The car was a brick,every bump was back jarring misery and that was with 15'' 60 series tires. The stockish 302,T-5 and 3.73,would spin until the shift in to 3rd. After a few months i could not take it anymore,and got rid of the B springs. Then the car became fun to drive.
Click to expand...
What tire and wheel would you recommend? On the street and on the twisty backroads it's fun and does pretty well. I like the b springs actually. I feel they're a decent mix between chuckwagon and Cadillac. They're aren't near as jarring as the Eibach sportlines that were on my '90. Those were horrible, and didn't have any give at all. Maybe it's the difference between the fox and the sn95, maybe not. But at any rate I'd buy the B's again.
 

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
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Feb 3, 2017
#23
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #23
karthief said:
Thats a good look'n car. I'm kinda partial to blue.
I'd shoot for a taller tire at the track but I'm no expert.
Click to expand...
Thanks man, it's a dodge color. Viper Blue, but I'm not sure which year model Viper. The wheels and tires were a package deal.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2016
27,875
10,544
203
polk county florida
Feb 3, 2017
#24
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #24
I can spin my tires any time I want in first, second and third if I short shift it. Mostly stock with a couple bolt ons, don't drag race thought. Can't keep a straight line.
But they are 15 year old radial ta's, treadwear 1000 traction at 0 they turn asphalt white, never smoke, and make no sound.
They are so hard I don't even have to check the air pressure anymore.
The kids at the bus stop think I've got the baddest car in the neighborhood.
 
Reactions: RaggedGT

Gear grabber

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2016
283
152
63
Feb 3, 2017
#25
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #25
90lxwhite said:
What tire and wheel would you recommend? On the street and on the twisty backroads it's fun and does pretty well. I like the b springs actually. I feel they're a decent mix between chuckwagon and Cadillac. They're aren't near as jarring as the Eibach sportlines that were on my '90. Those were horrible, and didn't have any give at all. Maybe it's the difference between the fox and the sn95, maybe not. But at any rate I'd buy the B's again.
Click to expand...

Read the post by cleanLX,over and over. I just don't see your car ever hooking hard with B springs non adjustable struts/shocks and radials. To put power down,the front has to lift the rear squat and the tire has to absorb the shock.
 
Reactions: A5literMan and General karthief

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#26
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #26
cleanLX said:
Here's my experience with drag radials... I make 368rwhp/363rwtq through a high strung n/a 306, so I don't have the tq off the hit like you do.
On the street I could not go to the floor in 1st gear without breaking traction, really had to roll into it easy to stay hooked up and never did get to the rug without tire spin. In second if I rolled the throttle down nice and smooth it would stay hooked up, but, if I stuck the throttle in the carpet it would break loose at about 4500rpm. If I shifted hard into 3rd it would spin the tires hard/long enough to require steering correction, if I I rolled into 3rd for a split second then went to the floor it would stay hooked up. I could hit 4th full on and it would only spin a tiny bit then hook up.
So that's on the street. Much better than regular radials, but not what most make dr's out to be.
At the track, with a T5. I forget my race weight, but, it's something like 3340.
Drag radials were a pain in the butt. I either spun, or bogged if just trying to dump the clutch at various rpm. When the tires spun they did not recover well at all. You need to get fully out of the throttle then get back into it. The bogs as you can imagine were violent (radials do not absorb shock all that well, more in a bit) and when it spun forward motion was slow. It took a real fancy hold rpms while slipping the clutch and rolling the throttle down tap dance that was hard to duplicate and easy to miss. Poor consistency and wasted runs were plenty. My 60' were all over the board, anything from a low 1.8's to 2.1's
So, if this is going to be a track set of tires only...
I ditched the dr's at the track and went back to a bias ply "cheater slick".
Instant success. The bias ply absorbs the shock of the clutch dump making the launches much quicker and less violent at the same time. Even on a poor starting line, when the bias tie would spin, it would still move the car out hard and the tire will recover all on it's own, just stay in the gas and let them gather themselves up. My 60's went from previously stated to low/mid 1.6's. Simply dump the clutch and go.

DR's certainly can be very effective at the track, but it takes a well set up chassis, convertor or slipper clutch (not good on the street) to make them work. For the guys that have the time to test, test and test some more and the finances to make adjustments (springs, shocks, convertors, clutches) to dial it all in, DR's can work really well.
I'm over all that. When I go to the track, I want to air down, heat them up and let it rip.
So, my opinion is leave DR's for street duty and the guys racing competitive classes, for the weekend warrior with a stick car, go bias, either cheater or full slick depending on if you want to drive your car to the track or swap wheels at the track.
Click to expand...
Thank you sir, very informative post. Would you mind sending a link to a "cheater slick" so I have an idea what to look for? If I get a set I'll have to have a driveshaft loop huh?
 

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#27
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #27
Gear grabber said:
Read the post by cleanLX,over and over. I just don't see your car ever hooking hard with B springs non adjustable struts/shocks and radials. To put power down,the front has to lift the rear squat and the tire has to absorb the shock.
Click to expand...
It only took one read. No DR's for me.
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
15 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,560
1,146
184
Georgia
Feb 3, 2017
#28
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #28
Mickey Thompson ET Streets. It's not design for DD use at all.



Joe
 
Reactions: Boosted92LX, TOOLOW91, A5literMan and 1 other person

Gear grabber

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2016
283
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63
Feb 3, 2017
#29
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #29
Cheater slick,is something like this. Bias ply gumball, Mickey Thompson and M&H all so make them.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Hoosier/Hoosier-Quick-Time-Pro-DOT-Drag-Tires/746905/10002/-1
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
5 Year Member
Jul 30, 2011
4,674
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Illinois
Feb 3, 2017
#30
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #30
I ran the M&H dot legal bias ply tires when I was running nitrous at track. You can drive them on the street etc but they wear fast and are scary in the rain. Great track tire and are basically slicks with a couple tread grooves cut into them(which do very little in the rain). If you want to keep your suspension I highly recommend a soft tire like those. They will absorb more shock on the hit. Drag radials are a little tricky with a manual transmission. Not nearly as easy as a bias tire. My .02
 
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90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#31
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #31
A5literMan said:
I ran the M&H dot legal bias ply tires when I was running nitrous at track. You can drive them on the street etc but they wear fast and are scary in the rain. Great track tire and are basically slicks with a couple tread grooves cut into them(which do very little in the rain). If you want to keep your suspension I highly recommend a soft tire like those. They will absorb more shock on the hit. Drag radials are a little tricky with a manual transmission. Not nearly as easy as a bias tire. My .02
Click to expand...

Gear grabber said:
Cheater slick,is something like this. Bias ply gumball, Mickey Thompson and M&H all so make them.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Hoosier/Hoosier-Quick-Time-Pro-DOT-Drag-Tires/746905/10002/-1
Click to expand...
Thanks fellas @A5literMan How did the big head trick flow build turn out?
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
20+ Year Stangneter
Nov 29, 1999
8,483
8,687
234
S.I.NY
Feb 3, 2017
#32
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #32
You can make radials work . And I recommend that for a primarily used street car . Skimming that 17inch rim....

34xx with me in it .
 
Reactions: A5literMan, Boosted92LX, RangerJoe and 2 others

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
15 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Georgia
Feb 3, 2017
#33
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #33
TOOLOW91 said:
You can make radials work . And I recommend that for a primarily used street car . Skimming that 17inch rim....

34xx with me in it .
Click to expand...

Are those the biasply version of the R'so?

Joe
 

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end
15 Year Member
Jul 3, 2009
5,129
1,666
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Maryland
Feb 3, 2017
#34
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #34
i had hoosier radials on it... then a hoosier bias ply... now mickey pro radials...


it will never have anything other than a radial on it
 

RangerJoe

I leave the horn on while driving
15 Year Member
Apr 26, 2010
2,560
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184
Georgia
Feb 3, 2017
#35
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #35
srtthis said:
i had hoosier radials on it... then a hoosier bias ply... now mickey pro radials...


it will never have anything other than a radial on it
Click to expand...

I thought they were offering the pro radials in a bias ply version now? Maybe not...

Joe
 

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?
20+ Year Stangneter
Nov 29, 1999
8,483
8,687
234
S.I.NY
Feb 3, 2017
#36
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #36
RangerJoe said:
Are those the biasply version of the R'so?

Joe
Click to expand...
No that's the drag radial version
 

Gear grabber

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2016
283
152
63
Feb 3, 2017
#37
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #37
RangerJoe said:
I thought they were offering the pro radials in a bias ply version now? Maybe not...

Joe
Click to expand...
The ET Street R is available in radial and bias ply.
https://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetR
 

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...
5 Year Member
Jul 30, 2011
4,674
2,343
194
Illinois
Feb 3, 2017
#38
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #38
90lxwhite said:
Thanks fellas @A5literMan How did the big head trick flow build turn out?
Click to expand...
Didn't do it unfortunately
 

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#39
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #39
A5literMan said:
Didn't do it unfortunately
Click to expand...
Dang.
 

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man
5 Year Member
Aug 25, 2011
3,310
374
134
Between the Red and Rio
Feb 3, 2017
#40
  • Feb 3, 2017
  • #40
TOOLOW91 said:
You can make radials work . And I recommend that for a primarily used street car . Skimming that 17inch rim....

34xx with me in it .
Click to expand...
I'm just looking for a set to put on when I go to the track. I was originally thinking radial so I could put them on a the house, it's only like 10 miles. However, I'm starting to lean towards a slick I think. What would be my cheapest wheel option? Do I want 15" or 16"? Looks aren't all that much of a concern, I'll paint them black if I have to.
 
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