DSS or CHP?

chp provides most of the dyno mules used by the mustang 5.0 and fast fords magazine

About using the stock oem block.

For a street mostly application ..............
As long as the rpms are kept within reasonable limits ...........

I don't have a prob with it at all.

Got the same peace of mind if talking about 347 strokers.

btw ... that steep rod ratio stuff is true

The thing that gets my dander up about that is

Its no different than two other topics we used talk about over and over on this very site

1) 373's are too steep
2) the cobra pcm sucks

We talked for around two years about both of those topics before peeps finally started to acutally do some research for themselves instead of

listening to their bud ... he had no clue as well!
believing some mag article ... unbiased info? ... NOT
just taking internet bs at face value

Now a days ..............

On this site you see peeps asking about ......
should they use 373's or 410's
and
some actually are seeking a Cobra pcm to use

Whats my point in posting up this stuff???

373's are too steep ... however
the Cobra pcm does suck ... however
347 has a steep rod ratio ... however

Its all about the however thing ................

Until peeps look to see if any fact might have however conditions

they are choosing to stay in the dark
and
they are guilty of spreading internet myth

A 347 stroker has a steep rod ratio ... however
You can find factory built production oem motors with as steep or steeper rod ratios

Now ask yourself ..... hummmmm ...........

I wonder if that info might cause me to ...........

consider a different way of thinking
other
than just going along with the masses

Is this the picture you see in your mind

A bunch of highly trained, highly paid, engineers and high level decision makers all sitting around some big conference table at Ford, Chrysler, or GM. The topic of discussion is a motor to use for one of their production cars that will be made for years.

They see this particular motor has a rod ratio of bla bla bla and it will have a life span shorter than the typical motor that is used.

They all look at each other and say ... "thats not an issue"

That ain't the pic I see

Grady

93GTWannabe said:

You are correct sir... the clearancing of the block, and also, the Heads and pistons don't always fit together like they should, not to mention the Way the rod is angeled, the 347 is more prone to not lasting very long. besides a 331 is good enough for a lightning, why not my car? everyone's got 347's they're so common, i'll be different... and Stang8urlilss, You're the first person who hasn't like DSS... but when i make the phone calls and what not, it'll also depend on the staff's knowledge, and their customer service. that will play a HUGE part in my decision.

Click to expand...

Actually I have heard of a crapload of people who dont like DSS. Do a search homeboy.

VibrantRedGT said:

Its a good theory but total BS. I've read the internet 347 myths on here for 7 years now. And still going........

Click to expand...

Actually I dont know why us with 347's bother. Let the 331 folks get ripped off because of a myth. From what I have read if you try to help and teach them a thing or two they are just going to have another excuse/reason. So I say if they wanna pay the same price as a bigger engine for a smaller one.....Let them and laugh. As for me I am very happy with my 347 CHP Street Fighter Pro Street!!!

Car Nut said:

Why not a 347 in a daily driver?

What I'm asking is........what if you put in a 347 and then drive it normally for 100K miles without beating on it really hard? I'm talking only a rare visit to a track or road course and where 99% of the time the car is used for weekends, trips, and other typical street car stuff. Maybe even a little traffic now and then. Why wouldn't a 347 live to see 100K miles comfortably, provided the car is serviced normally?

No offense to anyone on this question, but what if a street prepped (dare I say emissions legal) 347 were only used on the street. For arguments sake, the 347 in question would have a mildish cam, AFR 185 (or similar) heads, and an Edel RPM II intake (or similar). Nothing ultra fancy, just good replacement parts that work acceptably with a 347.

Click to expand...

You just described my car exactly except I have a performer intake not a rpm


CHP street fighter pro street 347, .509/.532 222/232 (112), AFR 185cc x 61cc, all forged internals, 10:1, main girdle, windage tray, MSD ignition/dizzy/wires/coil, fluidyne rad, canton overflow, ceramic bbk shorty headers, 3.73, 30lb squirt, 255 fuel pump, c&l true flow pipe, 90mm lmaf, edelbrock performer intake ported lower, flowcooler highflow waterpump, romac 28oz balancer, underdriven crank pully, oil/tranny coolers, new ac pump/hoses/accumulator, 200amp alt, plx m-300 wideband o2 air/fuel monitor, autometer phantom oil temp/oil pressure/tranny temp/water temp, transgo shift kit, b&M deep tranny pan, 70mm tb, bbk intake spacer, high volume oil pump, magnaflow h-pipe with highflow cats, flowmasters, autopower 4 point, kirban adjustable fpr, subframe connectors, aluminum wire looms, aluminum driveshaft, tokico shocks, thats about all I can think of right now.

About the OEM engines with steeper ratios...how many of them get the same mileage at the same average as a stock 5.0L. Name the "400cu." GM engine that consistently hits that mileage.

I want to see what I am spreading that is untrue. Someone show me instead of saying I am.

I said the 347 has a steeper ratio. And it does.

I said a 331 has more piston material than a 347 piston. And it does.

A 331 is different. And it is.

What else?

The comparison is not about 302 to 331/347

The comparison is about how ........

331 is accepted as the hot chit for a stroker
but
347 not suitable unless you rarely drive it
or
use is sparingly
or
put just a few miles on it ... 1/4 at a time

The rod ratio does indeed gets worse ...........
no matter if we are talking about 331 or 347

No one has ever said, or as least that is how I see it, the rod ratio is all that good on a 347.

What has been said over AND over is this ......

The ratio on the 347 is not that much worse than on the 331

Perhaps you prefer it said like this ..............

The ratio on the 331 is better than the 347 .........
end of discussion ... lets don't talk about it any more

Just like Vibe pointed out
Same O ... Same O ... chit

The sky is falling ... The sky is falling

Just as you pointed out earlier in this thread ............
The BAD rod ratio of 347's are exaggerated

How much is it exaggerated ... I can't know for sure
but
it is too dam much

Lets get real here ................

Most peeps who build 331's or 347's don't use them to get groceries in anyway.

Draw 300-325rwhp from a stock blocked oem combo by installing h/c/i with all supporting parts and you have shortened the life of that motor

Maybe all the young peeps and noobs don't know stuff like that
but
there are a good bit of us who do

I just don't wanna unintentionally mislead peeps.

We see stuff all the time like ... I want to put 500rwhp on my Stang. Can I put on h/c/i and blower to make that happen? We inquire a bit more and find this guy drives his Stang to school and its the only car hes got.

I tire from this futile effort

I've got a solution at least for me that will work

About a year ago, I decided I had wasted far too much of my time trying to help peeps see the all the issues of retro-fitting older fox pcm's in our cars.

I stopped posting in those kinds of threads and started to just point them to older threads I had done. Why not ... its the same stuff! ... Valid info then is Valid info now.

I've just made the same decision about this 331/347 topic

One last thing here and I'm immediatley unsubscribing from this thread

If nothing else, our discussion might cause some to research

Ya'll hash it out
I ain't wasting anymore time typing

Grady

If your "friends dad" has "been building bad ass cars before we could walk" why the HELL are you asking about a company to build yours? Why not have your friends dad do it?

If what you are looking for is a rotaing assembly ONLY, then why are limiting your choices to CHP and DSS? What about eagle and Scat? I got my Scat rotating assembly from Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com My experience with Kevin has been nothing but top notch. His pricing and service are unmatched from my experience. If your looking to have someone other than your friend build it, then check out Rick at http://www.rnhperformance.com He assembled and balanced my dart block based shortblock. He is another TOP NOTCH guy to deal with and is a true engine BUILDER, not just an assembler.

final5-0 said:

We see stuff all the time like ... I want to put 500rwhp on my Stang. Can I put on h/c/i and blower to make that happen? We inquire a bit more and find this guy drives his Stang to school and its the only car hes got.

I tire from this futile effort

I've got a solution at least for me that will work

About a year ago, I decided I had wasted far too much of my time trying to help peeps see the all the issues of retro-fitting older fox pcm's in our cars.

I stopped posting in those kinds of threads and started to just point them to older threads I had done. Why not ... its the same stuff! ... Valid info then is Valid info now.

I've just made the same decision about this 331/347 topic

One last thing here and I'm immediatley unsubscribing from this thread

If nothing else, our discussion might cause some to research

Ya'll hash it out
I ain't wasting anymore time typing

Grady

Click to expand...

you and a9l's sounds like me as far as the aode - t5 swap goes. apparently the search function only works properly for a select few of us. as far as the thing about 500hp goes on someones only car, that makes me laugh. my car wasnt reliable enough to be a daily driver at the 400hp mark much less any higher. as far as the 331 goes, my other reason was that i am going to be making block splitting power without the extra cubes so why not have a little less aggressive ratios inside the motor regardless of whether or not it would have any effect on longevity. but then again, its a totally different game once you add a power adder to the equation. to be honest, i kind of regret not selling the blower and going with a 10.0:1 compression 347. joe's car rips with his setup.

mustangt562 said:

Actually I have heard of a crapload of people who dont like DSS. Do a search homeboy.

Click to expand...

Honestly I have heard alot of people having issues with the
D.S.S. short blocks.Also I have had people come up to me
and tell me that D.S.S.s' customer service is the worst.They
said they were even rude to them over the phone.Personaly
I would never give them my business.CHP is very reputable
and has great customer service skills I should know because
one of my good friends purchased a engine from them and he
was very pleased with the service.
The best of luck with your purchase though.

mustangt562 said:

You just described my car exactly except I have a performer intake not a rpm


CHP street fighter pro street 347, .509/.532 222/232 (112), AFR 185cc x 61cc, all forged internals, 10:1, main girdle, windage tray, MSD ignition/dizzy/wires/coil, fluidyne rad, canton overflow, ceramic bbk shorty headers, 3.73, 30lb squirt, 255 fuel pump, c&l true flow pipe, 90mm lmaf, edelbrock performer intake ported lower, flowcooler highflow waterpump, romac 28oz balancer, underdriven crank pully, oil/tranny coolers, new ac pump/hoses/accumulator, 200amp alt, plx m-300 wideband o2 air/fuel monitor, autometer phantom oil temp/oil pressure/tranny temp/water temp, transgo shift kit, b&M deep tranny pan, 70mm tb, bbk intake spacer, high volume oil pump, magnaflow h-pipe with highflow cats, flowmasters, autopower 4 point, kirban adjustable fpr, subframe connectors, aluminum wire looms, aluminum driveshaft, tokico shocks, thats about all I can think of right now.

Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks for posting your setup.

That's the way I'm really leaning........the 347. Emissions will be met and I don't think it will be that big of a headache to accomplish. Cost? Well, I think it would be comparable or cheaper than getting a new 306 crate-type CHP setup along with a Kenne Belle. I'm not considering a rebuild at all, just a total replacement of the block and h/c/i with forged internals. Just want to get it done right the first time and even though a little overkill, I want my "street" engine to last 100K miles.

CHP gets my vote. I'm keeping up on this topic a lot, but mostly with complete engine setups. DSS is good, but there have been a few bad experiences on here.

Your going to have bad things with both if not for the volume the sell and not everyone does the install/engine breakin correctly once they get the product (not saying every failure is due to end user but I think you get my drift). Someone on here and/or hardcore said something along the lines..."how many people FIRST HAND have something to say about a product listen to what they have to say over someone who had a buddies neighbors cousins sisters boyfriend 3 states away"

I am VERY pleased with my DSS shortblock. The parts looked great assem. everything had APR hardware. With a std. volume oil pump I see 55-60psi cold startup, 45-50psi warm and 70-75psi at anything over 1,500-2k rpm. I have every confidence I could spin this thing to 7k rpm (but the block wouldnt like that I am sure )

Anderson Ford Motorsports IIRC uses DSS only. I am in NO way knocking CHP either like I said it came down to shipping for me and what I thought was a very comperable product. If I was going with an aftermarket block and higher end rotating assem. (forged crank) I would 100% also look at the links killer posted.

In the end I like to remember this though. Parts only know how they are installed and not what name is on them.

Just go with eagle or scat...both are GREAT products..

final50 - I greatly respect your opinion, because you do not lose control when debating something.

but, I see things a bit different...

I see things as the "347 is the hot chit to get"...not the 331...so it is seen as "unpopular" and slow, when dyno after dyno have shown very little differences.

Either way you say doesnt' matter to me...

331 has a better rod ratio than a 347, or the 347 has a worse ratio.

I would hope some on here would actually realize who is being "bias" and who is not.

I respect opinions a lot when it comes from those maybe not actually suggesting the part on their car. Thinking they have the best...when in reality...they have what they think is best.

I have seen some 347 guys and builders saying how there is nothing wrong with a 331 and both strokers would be great options for a build-up. I love that.

What I upon is "go 347 or your slow"...LOL. Because it simply is bias for their own reasons and irrational.

A 347 isn't for everyone, a 331 isn't for everyone.

What I see lots of times is how those that have a 331 in their sig, or a some other different motor, they get shunned by being told they are "unintelligent" and all that mess. I mean, "what the crap"?

Things get exxagerated about 331's as well. They are "slow", "useless", etc...

Welp, I guess so are the 302's. If you don't have a 1.59" rod ratio...then you are slow and stupid for picking what you picked.

93GTWannabe said:

Who can i go through to research them? i know they're not exactly small names, but i've never really looked into them.

Click to expand...

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com

http://www.eaglerod.com

Although you are likely to find a lot of helpful information here, you will find more at http://www.hardcore50.com on the subject of scat versus eagle. I did my own research and went with Scat. Here's a result of a quick search I did on scat versus eagle on hardcore.

http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20082&highlight=scat+quality

Since you are buying a rotating assembly only, definitely do yourself a favor and call Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com before you buy anything. He can supply ANYTHING you'll need to get this thing together, his customer service is second to none as well as his prices.