dyno and tweecer results

[jetuomi]

Just wanted to post my #'s, made 290 at the wheels last night at our local dyno.. I had a great time, especially tuning the car.. Was able to form the A/F curve to exactly how I would have wanted it, around 12.6:1 at torque peak leaning out from there.. power was strong to 6300 where it made 275 rwhp.. The one thing that I couldn't tune around was the 106* air charge temp (my K&N is not in the fenderwell and the fans didn't help) that should have been around 70* I would have gained I'd say 5+ more since it will lean it out more..

But the biggest thing I was impressed with was what I did it with.. stock ignition, stock distributor, 180,000 mile long-block that burns a tad bit of oil, cats, stock tailpipes.. just better rings could be worth more..

If this was a fresh rebuilt 10:1 compression 306 with a slightly bigger cam (duration-wise), no cats, and slightly higher flowing heads (2.02 valve) it could do 320 at the wheels no prob at around 6200rpm's.. The RPM2 intake is amazing, definately not "too" big for 306 combo's... just have to make sure they're revving upto 6500 (and probably have 3.73's minimum)..

Using the Tweecer was the best part.. Just on my combo I was able to adjust from 272 stock.. Best thing is my part-throttle is strong and not rich.. this is with 39psi at the AFPR vacuum off..

now track oct2 to chase a 12.8@108 hopefully...

 

[nmcgrawj]

Good to see one other person going with the bigger intake and still getting great numbers. What were the torque numbers like?

With the tweecer, you make your pull with the wide band on the dyno to see your air to fuel ratio, then are their tables for fuel delivery you adjust to lean it out or richen it up through thr rpm band? Is it possible to look at these tables on my computer to get a grasp of all this stuff before i get my own?

I guess i am just asking what the specific procedure is to lean out or richen the mixture with the tweecer.

Also, how much is dyno time usually with a wideband hook up? Is it better to just spend the $250-300 bucks to just get your own wide band and have everything you need to get it tuned perfectly or as close as possible?

Sorry for the long post, just researching getting ready for my upgrade over the winter!

 

[jetuomi]

thanks man.. I love the rpm2 and it'll grow with the car as it makes more power.. the printed graphs don't have torque on them we were more concerned with a/f since it was 11:1 at 6000rpm's first pull.. I have the floppy disk I'll pull the graphs from them later today and post...

How I tuned was spending the last few months tuning the narrowband o2's so my part-throttle was bang on.. then I knew at the dyno I would tune spark and WOT only... and that's all I did, I found going up 2+ * on the spark didn't help (only .2 hp) so that wasn't worth it.. but with a cooler air-charge it might have shown more power..

As for leaning it out I exclusively used a WOT vs. RPM function and since my curve was perfect @ 4500 +/- 500rpm, I put in entries in this table of 1000, 2000, 4500, 6000, 7000, 16384, and tuned the curves that way leaning it out.. if I leaned it out 5% on the tweecer then bang it was 5% leaner on the wideband.. (pretty sweet)..

So yeah, I'm going to get a wideband O2 installed in my car and then never use the dyno again, essentially I'll run open loop all the time and get even more fuel efficiency at low loads, and add a bit more fuel at higher load part throttle applications.. (what a book)..

So in the end, yeah, get a tweecer first, then the wideband.. you'll be happy..

Good to see one other person going with the bigger intake and still getting great numbers. What were the torque numbers like?

With the tweecer, you make your pull with the wide band on the dyno to see your air to fuel ratio, then are their tables for fuel delivery you adjust to lean it out or richen it up through thr rpm band? Is it possible to look at these tables on my computer to get a grasp of all this stuff before i get my own?

I guess i am just asking what the specific procedure is to lean out or richen the mixture with the tweecer.

Also, how much is dyno time usually with a wideband hook up? Is it better to just spend the $250-300 bucks to just get your own wide band and have everything you need to get it tuned perfectly or as close as possible?

Sorry for the long post, just researching getting ready for my upgrade over the winter!

 

[jetuomi]

Pics.. Also, I adjusted for the hot air temp buy using the dynojet adjustment factor..

 

[Grn92LX]

Are those old style edelbrocks or the new ones? Im guessing the old school ones. What kinda port work and did you give Ed a flow sheet to work with? I think your torque is soft down low. I also think leaning it out is worth soem power. Got a full graph with a/f included?? The new edelbrock heads area force to be reckoned with. My friend has them on a 10.5:1 306 and is making 323hp/348tq. He makes 300 ft/lbs from 3200 to 5600rpm for comparisons sake. He still has shorty headers too which will help too if he swaps. His heads are milled, convterted to stud mount and have some slight bowl work fwiw.

 

[tmoss]

the EBII is not a "big" runner. I think your torque curve is good with 250ft-lbs @ 2,200 rpm. Doesn't mean it can't get better though. What timing did you wind up with as intitial? Are you running the EEC for timing or running without a SPOUT?

 

[jetuomi]

old style, and yes I gave Ed the flow sheet, avg flow on the heads is better than a Trickflow TW head.. My torque is a bit soft down low I blame the ED2 intake for that because I know if I had a cobra type intake my low-end torque would be killer.. but I have 3.73's for that..

wow, that's a good motor your buddy has..

I have the A/F graph, here it is.. I've leaned it out more today since the runs last night (ran out of time, a "TEG" was after me !)..

Are those old style edelbrocks or the new ones? Im guessing the old school ones. What kinda port work and did you give Ed a flow sheet to work with? I think your torque is soft down low. I also think leaning it out is worth soem power. Got a full graph with a/f included?? The new edelbrock heads area force to be reckoned with. My friend has them on a 10.5:1 306 and is making 323hp/348tq. He makes 300 ft/lbs from 3200 to 5600rpm for comparisons sake. He still has shorty headers too which will help too if he swaps. His heads are milled, convterted to stud mount and have some slight bowl work fwiw.

 

[jetuomi]

thanks.. yeah the rpm2 is not for the low-end (though it does do a good job!)..

I think I can get more I need to get a timing gun on my car because in my tweecer spark tables I'm setting 36* total timing at 2500+.. (spout in, base 10*).. plus with the ACT > 80* it was pulling timing, only about 2-3 * but that's why I was a bit mad I couldn't hit 300 cause of the damn heat (ECT was around 184 instead of what I thought would be better @ 170).. oh well, the track will tell, 108mph is my goal !!

the EBII is not a "big" runner. I think your torque curve is good with 250ft-lbs @ 2,200 rpm. Doesn't mean it can't get better though. What timing did you wind up with as intitial? Are you running the EEC for timing or running without a SPOUT?

 

[BlackVert]

sweet numbers, jet! i also have a tweecer (i see you on the tweecer forum alot), but i am not as far along as you.

 

[tmoss]

Shoot for 13-13.5 A/F

 

[jetuomi]

Hey, thanks.. that's with cats, I know I lost torque when I put the cats on I could feel I feel more comfortable flying around now not worrying about the cops..

How's your slopes/breakpoints calculation coming along??

sweet numbers, jet! i also have a tweecer (i see you on the tweecer forum alot), but i am not as far along as you.

 

[Stangfreak95]

Nice numbers Jani I wish I knew mine..
Are you chasing my 12.8@108 ??

I'll be chasing a 12.6-12.7 on Saturday if everything goes to plan.

 

[jetuomi]

Shoot for 13-13.5 A/F

at peak hp or peak tq? I've heard 12.8 @ peak tq and 13.5 @ peak hp.. sound good?

 

[jetuomi]

Thanks !.. Yes, I am, 12.8@108 seems possible, what was your 60' ???
Let me know how your track runs go, I'm going oct2, week after this weekend... (I have to change my 13.7 @ 104 untuned #)..

Nice numbers Jani I wish I knew mine..
Are you chasing my 12.8@108 ??

I'll be chasing a 12.6-12.7 on Saturday if everything goes to plan.

 

[Stangfreak95]

Thanks !.. Yes, I am, 12.8@108 seems possible, what was your 60' ???
Let me know how your track runs go, I'm going oct2, week after this weekend... (I have to change my 13.7 @ 104 untuned #)..

My 60 ft are mostly in the mid-high 1.8's. Still OK but not good enough. Like I was saying a few days ago, I had my 2 best 60ft ever on my last 2 runs the other day but the left lane electronics decided to not work and I had no final time or mph. Only I had was the 60ft. I was 1.790 and 1.77. That was a 12.7 run for sure that s why I wanna go again to get that timeslip. Rearend is still fu**** up though..Still spinning only one wheel sometimes..

Wish I was racing on a good track like in the States. I bet I could hit a 12.5 without much problems on motor.

Anybody wanna pay me a plane ticket for me and my stang ?

 

[BlackVert]

Hey, thanks.. that's with cats, I know I lost torque when I put the cats on I could feel I feel more comfortable flying around now not worrying about the cops..

How's your slopes/breakpoints calculation coming along??

Yeah, I put cats in too because it is important to me to be legal.

I am at crossroads on the injector/breakpoint stuff. It is a messy situation. Sorry, it's long.

When I bought it, my car had the stock maf, an aftermarket cai, and an AFPR (among other stuff). I do not know what the AFPR is set to. And I have this 80mm C&L meter housing that I bought for my 1996 that just happens to fit the electroncis for the 1995. So I had this great idea -- build a PVC intake pipe and use the C&L meter. So that is what I did. I played with the maf transfer function and got it to run, and it actually runs very well, the throttle response is good, but my kamrf numbers are all over the place. And I sold the CAI to someone.

But I had not worked out what my injector slopes were when I did all this. Oops. Now there are too many variables to get it right and it is like I'm wandering around in the dark.

Plus, it looks like my AFPR is going bad (I can smell gas), and I want to go back to a stock FPR.

What I really need to do is go back to the stock maf, install the new FPR, get the injector settings right, and then go back to the 80mm maf. Then I'll be good. But .........

I don't have a way to hook up the stock meter any more (cause I got rid of the CAI) and getting it from Ford will cost $400, which I refuse to do. So I have to figure out how to proceed. I started a thread about it (http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=502550), but didn't get much response. I think I'll call http://PrestigeMustang.COM and see how much a used filter/intake hose costs.

I bet you're sorry you asked!

- Chris

 

[jetuomi]

OK, here's my 2 cents, I wouldn't want you to deviate from your stock MAF transfer unless you had to, but since you don't have yours you've tried to make it as close as possible.. since you're likely off a few % points at each MAF point that's why your KAMRF's are all over the place..

What I would do is trash the C&L, and buy a plastic Pro-M 77 MAF and be done with it..

Find a stock 94 FPR and slap that one, total spent $199 USD.. Then we can get to adjusting your slopes/breakpoint..

Drop me an email we can talk "offline" (like we say in consulting industry, haha).. [email protected]

Yeah, I put cats in too because it is important to me to be legal.

I am at crossroads on the injector/breakpoint stuff. It is a messy situation.
Sorry, it's long.
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I bet you're sorry you asked!

- Chris

 

[final5-0]

at peak hp or peak tq? I've heard 12.8 @ peak tq and 13.5 @ peak hp.. sound good?

Cats will make a sniffer wb show lean.

My wb is mounted in the collector of the lt's and it showed about a full point richer than the sniffer wb the dyno was using.

Not bad numbers for your first shakedown run.

Later
Grady

 

[mo_dingo]

Shoot for 13-13.5 A/F

Yep, I second that.

You are running too rich across the board. You want 13.0-13.5 for the entire RPM range. Why would the RPM's matter when it comes to a/f ratio? Each cylinder combustion is stand alone; Meaning that no matter if you are running 10000 rpm's, or 1000, 13-13.5 a/f ratio for each cylinder combustion creates the maximum explosion, which makes the most power.

But great numbers for the first time at the dyno. It definately takes a lot of work to understand how our EEC works and how to tune it properly.

What are the specs on your cam? Your power drops off way to early. The intake is not at fault. Seems to me you need some more duration in that cam.
Scott

 

[Slow5.0]

I don't get it, you sayin stock long blosk ,that mean stock heads too, there is no way get that much HP with stock long block N/A