Dyno'd Today - POOR HP Numbers - HELP!

[Treachery]

My Mustang was dyno'd this afternoon and it was horrible... absolutely horrible. We could not get a good baseline pull.

2 MAJOR problems:

FIRST:
The engine always cuts out at around 4500 rpm, as if a rev-limiter is preventing it to rev any further. I had installed a brand new Crane hi-6s thinking that the problem was ignition and set the rev-limiter to 8000rpm.. Nope. I then removed my old Autologic chip did a pull. Same result. The dynograph shows the power building up to about 230hp or so then the graph drops like a rock. ala stock market crash.

Thinking that the distributor (Accel Billit) was a possible cause, I had installed a regular stock distributor. Same result! Power cuts out at 4500rpm in ALL gears! Note: The engine actually sounded less raspy with the stock distributor in comparison than the Accel Billit!

The only possiblilty left that we could think of is the ECC-IV itself. I ordered another A9L from Ford. It will arrive in about 10 days.

Has this happened to anyone else?

SECOND:
When the engine is reving hard approaching 4500rpm, smoke comes out of the engine! The smoke builds from the firewall and then exists mostly from the passenger side through the air filter; some on the driver side as well. I found that the PCV value popped open but it was still smoking after i pushed it in securely.

The tuner could not figure out why this was happening. Another tuner came in and also could figure out why this was happening.

The reason given to me was that the engine "is getting tired" (89,000 miles).

I find this reason unacceptable. I do not thash my 93 Mustang GT around and i kept it mint condition throughout the years.

CAN ANYONE HELP ME OUT? WHY THE HELL MY MUSTANG BEHAVING LIKE THIS???

We managed only to get about 230hp because of the engine cutting out at 4500rpm! Piss poor results!

Please help if you can. I've had it.

Engine mods are below:
Stock 302 block, TFS Head Stage II CNC Ported, Stage II Billit Cam, 1.6 Roller Rockers, JBA Shortie Headers, Mac H-pipe, 2 Chamber Flowmasters, Crane HI-6S, PS1 Coil, Accel Billit Distributor, Vortech SQ-Trim 8lb Boost, Vortech Intake Manifold, 65mm Accufab Throttle Body, Ramair Dual Fans All vaccum and pumbing is secured.

Thank you.

 

[just4bob50]

I dont know what plugs you have in but when i put my charger on i forgot that i had platinum plugs in. at 4000rpm the car would just fall on its face and belch smoke because the spark was getting blown out. Hope thats all it is for you. when i changed the plugs to autolite 24's gapped at .035 everything was sweet.

 

[ratrapp2]

i'm not sure the problem but i bet your new computer doesn't fix it.

 

[DMAN302]

I know your very likely confident about this, but sounds quite familiar....wrong firing order. I've seen for guys wire up a, and spend days trying to trouble shoot why it was running questionably..only to find out the had used the wrong 302 wiring diagram. Just a thought..good luck.

 

[Paul Perreca]

you should be making almost double that ~ good luck man....
Paul Perreca

 

[jrichker]

What is your fuel pressure? Did the dyno provide a wide band air/fuel ratio gauge? If so, what were the air/fuel ratio readings?

 

[1991vert]

maybe your timing is off ??

 

[Polter83]

If your car is smoking between the engine and firewall.. sounds like your ground is catching heat or fire..should be bolted the back of the head.. you may need more grounds..which will affect the computer..which will affect the car.

There is something particular about the pcv valve poping out.. I read about it somewhere and just overlooked it so I cant tell you what it means.. but It has something to do with too much pressure building. Im sure someone will chime in and give you some ideas..

btw, what was the timing and fuel at during these runs?

 

[Treachery]

Timing is at 10 degrees. Fuel pressure at 52psi (6:1 MFU). Plugs are Autolite 3923. I originally started out with 3922 but it switch to the 3923 for troubleshooting. No luck there.

I was about to order the A9L this morning when the guy at the Ford counter suggested this other guy that works on Mustangs and other muscle cars.

So this other mechanic said the problem is that the crank is building up way too much pressure and so "the MAP is telling the ecc-iv to shutdown the engine". The pressire (oil?) must be relieved.

The engine is setup with a tube from the oil filler to the Vortech box that's covers the air filter while the the throttle body is plugged.

He suggested that there should be a tube from the throttle body to Vortech box that's covering the air filter. Then a tube from the intake manifold to the oil filler and to the charcoal box in the passenger side of via a T-fitting.

He also said i should be running at least 36lb injectors. 42lbs would be ideal. High fuel pump will cause the injector to release fuel like a spray instead of a stream.

The explaination sounds logical.. Does anyone concurr?

 

[vikingpower]

Dont feel so bad, Just think of all those import boys that would be bragging their asses off if they had 230whp

 

[txstang84]

hey, just a thought here, if your pcv valve is popping out, then the crankcase is overpressurized...(duh, i know) at any rate, don't some of the higher boost blowers include a ck valve that goes in between the intake manifold and the pcv valve? the ones i have seen are exactly the same thing as a power brake booster ck valve, only allowing airflow in one direction, thus keeping the boost in the intake, and not in the crankcase. and if the pcv blows out of the block, i'm sure that could potentially cause some problems...it caused my friends '95 Cobra to backfire at high rpms, and his is N/A...

i agree with you though, the "your motor is tired..." bit, there's people on here that are running boost on higher mileage engines with no issues...

 

[txstang84]

and another thing....who the hell told you that your map sensor is causing problems? isn't your car MA? MA cars don't have map sensors, last time i ck'd...

 

[txstang84]

Timing is at 10 degrees. Fuel pressure at 52psi (6:1 MFU). Plugs are Autolite 3923. I originally started out with 3922 but it switch to the 3923 for troubleshooting. No luck there.

I was about to order the A9L this morning when the guy at the Ford counter suggested this other guy that works on Mustangs and other muscle cars.

So this other mechanic said the problem is that the crank is building up way too much pressure and so "the MAP is telling the ecc-iv to shutdown the engine". The pressire (oil?) must be relieved.

The engine is setup with a tube from the oil filler to the Vortech box that's covers the air filter while the the throttle body is plugged.

He suggested that there should be a tube from the throttle body to Vortech box that's covering the air filter. Then a tube from the intake manifold to the oil filler and to the charcoal box in the passenger side of via a T-fitting.

He also said i should be running at least 36lb injectors. 42lbs would be ideal. High fuel pump will cause the injector to release fuel like a spray instead of a stream.

The explaination sounds logical.. Does anyone concurr?

I already commented on the map sensor part...if you do have an SD car with a map sensor, then yes, you'd have to install a ck valve in between the intake and the map sensor, because the computer won't recognize boost...it recognizes pressures below 0 psi (vacuum) and intreprets them as engine load based on all the other sensors

ok, is the blower setup the way Vortech says to set it up? if it is, disregard what he's telling you

he's right on the injectors, partially...42's would be much better, you could ditch the FMU with the bigger injectors, then just get a tune to maximize their duty cycle

the bit about the spray pattern...it should be in a narrow angle "spray" pattern, a stream is counterproductive to good atomization, thus less area exposed to oxygen, thus less power derived from combustion...

 

[Polter83]

Well timing seems ok.. fuel high.. but perhaps for the blower its ok.. I dont have a blower so Im not sure on that.

I do know that the valve cover filler neck should be connect to the throttle body. But you should have it setup like the blower company suggests.

 

[Treachery]

42lb injectors is definitely on my what-to-buy-next list.

I'll get a oil breather cap and test while i drive to work. It will be a bit difficult in putting that in since my strut tower brace travels directly over the oil filler spout.

Still uncertain if the smoke and the engine cutting out at 4500rpm are directly related.

I just looked at the pumbing and I have a tube from the oil filler spout to the Vortech box that covers the air filter. Instructions say the tube should connect to the throttle body. I remember connecting the tubing to oil filler spout and capping the throttle body because i was spewing oil.

Can anyone explain how to hook up a check value between the pcv and the intake? I'm not much of a mechanic.

Incidently, the ricers in my area know that my Mustang is under the weather. I can hear them reving their souped up pathetic commuter car engines as they past by... Just like right now... *sigh* I NEED THIS ISSUE FIXED!

Thanks for the support.

 

[2000xp8]

Out of curiousity why did you go to the dyno if you knew your car wasn't running right? You should be shifting probably at 5500 or higher and of known that 4500 was too low.

 

[Polter83]

Did you check your grounds? I litterally watch my ground from the firewal to the engine turn redhot and start to smoke.. then I realized I had to add more grounds. Helped a ton. But this was before I was driving around alot.

You dont need a breather on the filler neck if its the stock valve covers and stock filler neck. Aftermarket...ok you probably need one with a filter inside..and it should be the pvc breather type..not just a regular breather, needs it typically goes to the throttle body.

 

[87'GTstang]

How mush wear and tear is really on the engine and are you sure you are not getting excessive boost blowby (which can also ultimatley lead to too much crankcase pressure also)?

Do you know what your fuel pressure at the rail is at the rpm the engine starts nosing over?

 

[Treachery]

I went to the dynotune hoping the tuner can fix whatever the hell is broke. I guess i overestimated what a dynotune really is. Oh well... he was nice enough to bring me back on the fly the moment everything is fix.

So aways, my sick 'Stang behaved weird again. I got a new PCV valve an gromett but the screen element was a special order. I put the PCV in and started it up. Sounded good. I mashed on the pedal to 5500rpm and no engine cutout! yeah!

BUT... when on the freeway, it started to buckle and stutter at a certain rpm range. I hit the gas and it goes away. And... Unfortunately, the original problem- pinging on only 5th gear is still present.

What is it with 5th gear that making my Mustang ping?!?!?

On scale of 1 to 10, the condition of the engine is an 8. I kept it well maintained though all 12 years and it never saw the track. Sure, i raced it but i never overdid it. There were a few times where the car did not leave the garage for 1 month because the weather was bad... You know what i mean... Believe me, the engine & block is more than capable.

So...

- The issues now are the "bubbling"/backfire/stutter at a certain RPM. I was too disappointed to notice the rpm range but it happens during normal driving conditions.

- The pinging at 5th gear under load. A year has past and this problem won't go away. Replace ACT-ECT sensors, adjusted timing to 8 degrees, etc.

When it starts "bubbling", as i call it.. the fuel pressure as around 56-58psi. At a standstill, fuel pressure is at 52psi. Autometer Fuel Pressure gauge (the $250 version). 6:1 FMU.

During this weekend, i'm thinking of putting in new spark plugs (again) and a freshset of wires- Accel 300+. I removed the plugs so many times now, i may have broke spark plug wire from inside. I've tried every trick known to mankind but that 5th gear ping is still there. I think that if ping issue is resolved, the backfiring issue should fix itself.

Oh yes... How do i checked to see if the engine is well grounded?

 

[2000xp8]

I went to the dynotune hoping the tuner can fix whatever the hell is broke. I guess i overestimated what a dynotune really is. Oh well... he was nice enough to bring me back on the fly the moment everything is fix.
[/B]

?

It's actually a common mistake people make, especially one on a fox. Dyno fixes nothing. All it does is let you fine tune the fuel pressure and timing. Usually no more than that. The whole tune thing is overrated, a good performance shop can get the same results as a dyno, without the dyno. (5.0's only)

How old are your valve springs, and what lift are they rated for?

I also wouldn't mess with anything else until you get the 42's, i didn't see what size you had, but i'll assume 30's or less, which is not nearly enough.