E85 Questions

Edster · Jun 6, 2009

Can E85 be used in an old school engine? Would I need to run bigger jets. I've been told that is all you need to change to run ethanol. I've also been told you need at least 10:1 compression (I've got between 10.5 to 11:1). Or will the etanol eat away at the rubber components in the fuel system? I've thought about mixing it w/ 93 octane but don't want to risk damaging the engine.
Thanks.

10secgoal · Jun 6, 2009

I don't know that I would mix it. The fuel itself won't hurt the engine. It will be more than jets changes though. Don't know how much HP it would be worth with a N/A engine. It's kinda of like race gas. Unless you are able to put timing back, won't be worth gobs of HP over gasoline.

rbohm · Jun 6, 2009

you will need an alcohol carb, holley makes a good one, and a fuel pump that will handle alcohol also. you will need to change the rubber lines out for ones that will handle alcohol. you also best be running a couple of good fuel filters as the alcohol will clean out your tank, so all the sludge that has built up over the years will be sent to the carb. any plastic or non alcohol rated rubber in the system will also have to be replaced.

understand one thing though, if you change over to run E85 with a carbed engine, you have to run the E85 or straight ethanol all the time as your engine will run extremely rich if you try to use straight gasoline.

65ShelbyClone · Jun 7, 2009

Edster said:
1.) Can E85 be used in an old school engine?

2.) Would I need to run bigger jets.

3.) I've also been told you need at least 10:1 compression (I've got between 10.5 to 11:1).

4.) Or will the etanol eat away at the rubber components in the fuel system?

1.) Absolutely. It can be used in just about any gasoline engine.

2.) Yes.

3.) E85 is rated at 105 octane. The more you can take advantage of that, the better. A 9:1 stock engine will not be optimal for E85.

4.) That is debatable. Some say ethanol will not hurt modern fuel system components and others say it does. Ideally you would have a methanol-capable carb to eliminate all doubt.

brianj5600 · Jun 7, 2009

You don't need a methanol carb. There are a few rubber pieces in the carb that need replaced though. Anything that meters fuel needs to be enlarged about 30%. I would check with the maker of the rubber hose to see if it is E85 compatible.

Edster · Jun 7, 2009

Great info, just as I thought. But I did forget about the rubber hoses. I do want to crank up my timing as well. How much is E85 goin for a gallon? I do now gasoline has more power per "drop" over alcohol so I reckon I will go from 7mpg to 5 or worse.

65ShelbyClone · Jun 7, 2009

e85 prices - Google Search

bnickel · Jun 7, 2009

actually if you raise the compression to 10.5:1 or higher any mileage you lose from e-85 over the 9.5:1 combo on dino juice will be negligible, in fact you'll probably pick up a mile or two, but only if you raise the compression. the simple fact is that the higher the compression (within reason) with all other factors the same the more mileage you'll get, in fact you can easily run 12:1 on a street engine with e-85 if you wanted.

i've been seriously considering building my long rod, roller cam, aluminum head 351w dream engine with at least 10.5-11:1 compression and making it a duel fuel engine using E-85 and Propane.

Loup-garou · Jun 14, 2009

Edster said:
Can E85 be used in an old school engine? Would I need to run bigger jets. I've been told that is all you need to change to run ethanol. I've also been told you need at least 10:1 compression (I've got between 10.5 to 11:1). Or will the etanol eat away at the rubber components in the fuel system? I've thought about mixing it w/ 93 octane but don't want to risk damaging the engine.
Thanks.

Technically yes, E85 can be used in a carbed engine. Before considering the various elements which make this feasible, there's one potential problem: there's only ONE E85 pump in your area. The second nearest pump is in Pearland, TX - over 15 miles away. Both locations are at Kroger supermarkets, and the company which produces the ethanol for Kroger's fuel supplier recently declared bankruptcy.

At this point, it's unclear whether the stuff in Kroger's tanks has been there since before the bankruptcy filing (the stuff sells very slow), or is coming from a new supplier.

The stuff hasn't become as widely available as hoped because over a year ago, Underwriters' Laboratories withdrew their certification for the ethanol pumps due to materials being deteriorated by ethanol. AFAIK, new hoses, couplers an such have been specified to cure that problem, but UL certification (or lack thereof) affects the availability of *liability insurance* for the gas station owners. See the problem?

There has been another reported problem with the "blending" pumps failing to blend the correct 15% / 85% ratio. IMO, this is not yet a reliable fuel and distribution system. Anyway, that's my tooth hence.

rbohm · Jun 15, 2009

Loup-garou said:
Technically yes, E85 can be used in a carbed engine. Before considering the various elements which make this feasible, there's one potential problem: there's only ONE E85 pump in your area. The second nearest pump is in Pearland, TX - over 15 miles away. Both locations are at Kroger supermarkets, and the company which produces the ethanol for Kroger's fuel supplier recently declared bankruptcy.

At this point, it's unclear whether the stuff in Kroger's tanks has been there since before the bankruptcy filing (the stuff sells very slow), or is coming from a new supplier.

The stuff hasn't become as widely available as hoped because over a year ago, Underwriters' Laboratories withdrew their certification for the ethanol pumps due to materials being deteriorated by ethanol. AFAIK, new hoses, couplers an such have been specified to cure that problem, but UL certification (or lack thereof) affects the availability of *liability insurance* for the gas station owners. See the problem?

There has been another reported problem with the "blending" pumps failing to blend the correct 15% / 85% ratio. IMO, this is not yet a reliable fuel and distribution system. Anyway, that's my tooth hence.

excellent points. converting a carbed engine over to run E85 is not hard, but a better choice would be to make the swap over to efi. the megasquirt system was designed to handle a flex fuel sensor so that you can run everything from straight gasoline to E85 without issue.

wicked93gs · Jun 15, 2009

I'll be running my mod motor on E85, but will of course use Megasquirt with a flex fuel sensor so i can use gasoline if needed(the only way I could see this working on a carbed engine is to carry an extra carb jetted for gas around in case of an emergency where you have to use gas, a pain to change, but a good safety measure for the carb guys, just in case...in my area there are 5 or 6 ethanol stations, and ethanol costs $1 per gallon less than gas on average here, to me though the main advantage of E85 is the higher octane rating(making it an affordable high octane fuel) which has tons of potential in a boosted engine(which mine will be, its getting twin turbos)

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