Okay, quick lesson on breaking AWD parts. (EDIT- misused the word "to")
The reason why you'll see DSM's with broken parts (and expect to see more with WRX and EVO) is bog/break/burn.
You launch too low, the car bogs.
You launch higher than the bog, but not enough to burn- you break.
You launch and burn -
Subcategory A) Burn the clutch
Subcategory B) Burn the tires
AWD mitsu style means there is a center differential (typically Viscous Coupling Unit Type - liquid filled) front open wheel diff, and rear posi type diff.
You launch, in boost, generate 300FT/lbs on a moderately boosted motor. That transfers to clutch, clutch turns input shaft, that transfers to VCU, VCU senses wheels aren't moving, no spin, distributes torque on it's split (45/55 or 40/60 typically), then power is transfered to front halfshafts (remember open diff), or to the output shaft, into the transfercase, then thru driveshaft to rear end, to halfshafts - from all halfshafts to wheels.
Okay, so you launch low, you don't hit boost, or enough power, the motor makes power, hits all those moving parts and they drag the motor down - thus the twisting slows mid-part (depending on how badly you bog it could be at any shaft, diff or whatnot) - this isn't easy on parts as the stress enters higher, and then inertia causes it to unwind backward, then power comes on to wind back up. Less likely to break parts, but still hurts them.
Okay, you launch high enough you don't bog... but not high enough to burn. Power comes on, and it's a lot, and it doesn't back down- but you have enough grip that it fights pretty even against the power- this is where you find your weakest part. Twist happens, and you basically over power the part due to SHOCKLOADING - lots of twist here, and no movement there. It is why most DSM's break parts- they make enough to launch hard, but not enough to burn.
Okay, you launch high enough to burn- and you are slow to remove your foot from the clutch pedal- it spins and heats a little, if you are lucky (or have a clutch made for it) it grabs slowly, applying the power smoothly and your 60' suffers, the clutch took most of the damage. Not the best, but you'll simply need more clutches. If you aren't lucky or the clutch can't handle it- you'll smoke it and need a new clutch pretty dang quick!
Okay, you launch high enough to burn- your clutch holds and you have more power than grip- your tires spin momentarily, the SHOCK was relieved by breaking the grip to the pavement, and as the tire spins it heats slightly, and grips better, you applied full power to the wheels without the shock and driveline breakage.
This is how it works in a nutshell. The issue still remains that if you are running a part that can't take the full power- you're screwed- you can overpower parts while driving, they just aren't built for the power.
However most people who break driveline parts on a DSM or 3/S do so at the launch (or the damage occurs at the launch, they twist partially, and the next shift that is botched it breaks). You can shock break parts at less than the needed actual power level to simply break it by force.
That's why it matters to actually LEARN a car. You can't simply do a 7000RPM dump without knowing why you are gonna break something. I can do a 7000RPM dump and not break something.
Power doesn't just happen in a turbo car- if you have the clutch in - no load- and hammer the gas- you won't be in boost. So if you side step the clutch- you are doing so without boost actually being there- less power (still as much N/A power as 2.0L of fury can make) and snap or bog.
You can't get in a car that is AWD turbo and drive it like you do any other type of car. A mustang's axles aren't that strong either- but you only have 2 tires (quick math- 2 tires at 275mm wide (typical 275/45/17) gives you 550mm of width times the length of the contact patch divided by the percentage of patch making contact- as opposed to being tread pattern gap. Now take a talon running 255/40/17 and you get 1020mm of width possible (technicially if you were paying attention earlier you'd find that it's only 765 since the front is open diff) - which one is gonna have a harder time overpowering the grip of the tires?) to lay down the power- much easier to break them loose, and thus avoid the shock. (this is one of the reasons behind the myth that slicks are bad - they don't break parts, how you launch on them breaks parts
) Now yes different tire types run more % of contact or softer compound- I'm not going to get into it that far- but simply put- because you spin some in a mustang, you avoid breaking just as many parts.
Now then, AWD DOES NOT NEED DRAG RADIALS - not until about the 10's or 9's. You'll need a posi front long before then Average good 60' on the street or track in an AWD car should be between 1.65 and 1.75 seconds. That's being done on Z rated radials on 16-17" rims. I've seen guys go as fast as 1.54 on 18" radials, but he did have a 300M (metal type, not car make) output shaft (also ran 11.009@122).
Powershifting? As in not lifting the throttle- yeah it makes it easier, powershifting as in no clutch WOT? NO. That's nuts.
Go to www.dsmtalk.com or call up Burshur, Extreme, WrightTouch, Hahn, any DSM shop and talk to the guys.
The true long and short of Mustang VS DSM is this- do you like never spinning tires, quick stoplight action with the "feel" of a much slower car? Or do you like worrying about traction, feeling faster than a McLaren, able to run people down who got a jump?
The Mustang is about 100X more FUN to drive. The DSM is effortless to launch (once you know how
) although it lacks some of the fun.
Course take this one step further into handling, and things are another story yet again. Both can handle well. AWD means WOT exits, much less worry, although once you start to slide- you're screwed. RWD is MUCH better known, it's what is typically raced and taught and is the "accepted norm" of all things curvy. You'll almost never drift in an AWD. Although you may not have the need.
I'm done.
The reason why you'll see DSM's with broken parts (and expect to see more with WRX and EVO) is bog/break/burn.
You launch too low, the car bogs.
You launch higher than the bog, but not enough to burn- you break.
You launch and burn -
Subcategory A) Burn the clutch
Subcategory B) Burn the tires
AWD mitsu style means there is a center differential (typically Viscous Coupling Unit Type - liquid filled) front open wheel diff, and rear posi type diff.
You launch, in boost, generate 300FT/lbs on a moderately boosted motor. That transfers to clutch, clutch turns input shaft, that transfers to VCU, VCU senses wheels aren't moving, no spin, distributes torque on it's split (45/55 or 40/60 typically), then power is transfered to front halfshafts (remember open diff), or to the output shaft, into the transfercase, then thru driveshaft to rear end, to halfshafts - from all halfshafts to wheels.
Okay, so you launch low, you don't hit boost, or enough power, the motor makes power, hits all those moving parts and they drag the motor down - thus the twisting slows mid-part (depending on how badly you bog it could be at any shaft, diff or whatnot) - this isn't easy on parts as the stress enters higher, and then inertia causes it to unwind backward, then power comes on to wind back up. Less likely to break parts, but still hurts them.
Okay, you launch high enough you don't bog... but not high enough to burn. Power comes on, and it's a lot, and it doesn't back down- but you have enough grip that it fights pretty even against the power- this is where you find your weakest part. Twist happens, and you basically over power the part due to SHOCKLOADING - lots of twist here, and no movement there. It is why most DSM's break parts- they make enough to launch hard, but not enough to burn.
Okay, you launch high enough to burn- and you are slow to remove your foot from the clutch pedal- it spins and heats a little, if you are lucky (or have a clutch made for it) it grabs slowly, applying the power smoothly and your 60' suffers, the clutch took most of the damage. Not the best, but you'll simply need more clutches. If you aren't lucky or the clutch can't handle it- you'll smoke it and need a new clutch pretty dang quick!
Okay, you launch high enough to burn- your clutch holds and you have more power than grip- your tires spin momentarily, the SHOCK was relieved by breaking the grip to the pavement, and as the tire spins it heats slightly, and grips better, you applied full power to the wheels without the shock and driveline breakage.
This is how it works in a nutshell. The issue still remains that if you are running a part that can't take the full power- you're screwed- you can overpower parts while driving, they just aren't built for the power.
However most people who break driveline parts on a DSM or 3/S do so at the launch (or the damage occurs at the launch, they twist partially, and the next shift that is botched it breaks). You can shock break parts at less than the needed actual power level to simply break it by force.
That's why it matters to actually LEARN a car. You can't simply do a 7000RPM dump without knowing why you are gonna break something. I can do a 7000RPM dump and not break something.
Power doesn't just happen in a turbo car- if you have the clutch in - no load- and hammer the gas- you won't be in boost. So if you side step the clutch- you are doing so without boost actually being there- less power (still as much N/A power as 2.0L of fury can make) and snap or bog.
You can't get in a car that is AWD turbo and drive it like you do any other type of car. A mustang's axles aren't that strong either- but you only have 2 tires (quick math- 2 tires at 275mm wide (typical 275/45/17) gives you 550mm of width times the length of the contact patch divided by the percentage of patch making contact- as opposed to being tread pattern gap. Now take a talon running 255/40/17 and you get 1020mm of width possible (technicially if you were paying attention earlier you'd find that it's only 765 since the front is open diff) - which one is gonna have a harder time overpowering the grip of the tires?) to lay down the power- much easier to break them loose, and thus avoid the shock. (this is one of the reasons behind the myth that slicks are bad - they don't break parts, how you launch on them breaks parts
) Now yes different tire types run more % of contact or softer compound- I'm not going to get into it that far- but simply put- because you spin some in a mustang, you avoid breaking just as many parts.Now then, AWD DOES NOT NEED DRAG RADIALS - not until about the 10's or 9's. You'll need a posi front long before then
Average good 60' on the street or track in an AWD car should be between 1.65 and 1.75 seconds. That's being done on Z rated radials on 16-17" rims. I've seen guys go as fast as 1.54 on 18" radials, but he did have a 300M (metal type, not car make) output shaft (also ran 11.009@122). Powershifting? As in not lifting the throttle- yeah it makes it easier, powershifting as in no clutch WOT? NO. That's nuts.
Go to www.dsmtalk.com or call up Burshur, Extreme, WrightTouch, Hahn, any DSM shop and talk to the guys.
The true long and short of Mustang VS DSM is this- do you like never spinning tires, quick stoplight action with the "feel" of a much slower car? Or do you like worrying about traction, feeling faster than a McLaren, able to run people down who got a jump?
The Mustang is about 100X more FUN to drive. The DSM is effortless to launch (once you know how
) although it lacks some of the fun.Course take this one step further into handling, and things are another story yet again. Both can handle well. AWD means WOT exits, much less worry, although once you start to slide- you're screwed. RWD is MUCH better known, it's what is typically raced and taught and is the "accepted norm" of all things curvy. You'll almost never drift in an AWD. Although you may not have the need.
I'm done.
