Eliminating the Distributor?

Monsterbishi · Feb 15, 2006

Well, this is one thing that I wasn't expecting with the '94 GT we've got coming in 22 days - a distributor!

Sounds silly I know, but I haven't built a car with one for almost a decade now and assumed they love affair with the dizzy would have ended on v8 American cars long ago. So do they even use a electronic system for ignition advance or is it still vac advance?

At any rate, it's looking more and more like the whole engine could do with a working over in the electrical department, so it brings me onto the question side of this thread - does anyone make a crank trigger/toothed wheel for our 302 engine that bolts right up, or am I going to have to start grovelling to my engineers to get one made up?

BlownFiveLiter · Feb 15, 2006

The 94-95 (and 86-93 for that matter) all had electronically advanced ignitions. The Explorers on the other hand, had distributorless ignitions. I'm sure there's a way to swap over to that system if you're feeling inclined, and you could probably use a large majority of OEM parts in the process. I'm not aware of any aftermarket solutions, but that doesn't mean none exist; I just haven't paid attention since I have no issues with using the distributor personally.

HISSIN50 · Feb 15, 2006

Yep, it uses an electronic ignition. The Base spark signal is fired via the magnetic pickup (that's an old school name for it - the PIP or pick-up is what the kids call it). The TFI module is used via the computer to modulate the spark advance.

I bet you could try and hamburger together a DIS system from a 5L explorer or Mountaineer, since they are the same motor. You would maybe need machine work done for the reluctor ring (accomodating cam and/or crank triggers).

I dont see the need - I would not want to do it (I kinda like dizzies).

Good luck.

Koniz · Feb 15, 2006

Yeah there are people that make it MSD
http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_27_7600.htm

But very high priced of course

ProKiller · Feb 15, 2006

whats wrong with a distributor?

Monsterbishi · Feb 15, 2006

That's pretty much what I'll make, but will drive them off a aftermarket ecu, although having said that, another thing that amazes me with American car parts is how much cheaper they are than the JDM gear I'm accustomed to using, some things like Fuel Injectors, Lifters/HLA's are a fraction of the price in comparison!

Monsterbishi · Feb 15, 2006

ProKiller said:
whats wrong with a distributor?

Too many moving parts, not as accurate since it's susceptible to gear and chain wear, extra rotational mass. And it's quicker to change out parts on a crank trigger system too, last thing you want to worry about on race day is mucking around setting the timing on a dizzy when you only have a 40 minute service.

HISSIN50 · Feb 15, 2006

It sounds like you are going to do a serious motor build, in which case this makes more sense. IMHO an aftermarket dizzy is is decently reliable up to 6K RPM, though opinions will vary on that.

Were I doing a big build, I would probably be all over the swap too - it should help with getting a little bit better spark too (though the stock Thick Film Ignition is a pretty strong OEM ignition, circa 1994-95, IMHO).

Good luck.

Monsterbishi · Feb 15, 2006

We're building the car with circuit racing in mind, all the changes are fairly simple compared to some of the work I've done building Rally cars...

I'll be able to plan more in-depth when the car actually arrives, at this point I'm thinking of running 4 wasted-spark coils, leftovers from my Mitsu days, mounted in place of where the dizzy sits.

final5-0 · Feb 15, 2006

I can see your concern when talking about old school dizzys that had v advance and bob wieights.

Then you find out your soon to be stang has a dizzy

It is true you will find a rotor spinning around to fire each plug.

It ain't really as bad as you first thought.

Looks like you just wanna be involved with what you are used to.
on the other hand
Hard to argue with no moving parts

Guess I'm trying to tell you that us 94-95 guys are some how in between old school and what you are more accustomed to seeing.

Lots of very powerful NA combos get er done with that dizzy

Good Luck with your 94 and keep us posted with your results

Grady

cbarr300 · Nov 7, 2006

sooo......bringin up the dead

just curious how that swap went if he still posts here

SorsCode · Nov 7, 2006

i'm doing this on my 408. Used a Crank Trigger from an Explorer harmonic Balanced and mounted it on my 28oz Balancer. Took a V6 Cam Position Sensor and modified it with a 5.0 Explorer CPS. Then Got the VRS from an Explorer and used the Explorer timing chain so I could mount that. Then last but not least a 4.6L T-bird EDIS8 Module. Then for the fun part on mine. I took a V6 EEC Harness which is OBD2 and modified it back to OBD1 used it so I had the Connector for the EDIS module and cleanier look. Then Modded a 4.6L GT (03) injector harness and wired it in up so I had Coil on Plug Ignition. I writing a writeup for this. BTW no Distributor and No plug wires make the engine bay so clean. If you don't understand I will try to explain better.

cbarr300 · Nov 7, 2006

I somewhat understand this and I'm planning a 427 buildup once I get my cut from uncle sam. Gonna buy the shortblock and slowly build it up.

The main reason I'm interested in this is for the clean look it can give. Just a thought right now. From what you described it sounds like a huge project...but fun

Monsterbishi · Nov 7, 2006

Yup, still here, we're making good progress with the car, have decided not to bother with the 5.0 and are in the process of sourcing a 5.4 instead, just need a decent transmission to bolt up to it and it's all go.

Have met a local guy who can laser cut just about anything out of steel, so we're having him make the trigger wheel for us, we're using the coil packs from a later model australian Ford Falcon.

Took a while for the car to arrive, instead of 22 days later, it was 3 months due to shipping issues, such are the joys of living on the other side of the planet ;-(

cbarr300 · Nov 7, 2006

lol, one thing for sure. That would definately be a unique concept. Think it's time to start researching it.

good luck with ur build

The Green GT · Nov 7, 2006

Lets get some pic up. Id love to see this project.

cbarr300 · Nov 7, 2006

agreed, would like to see it as well

BlackVert · Nov 7, 2006

talk to sorscode, he is doing something to use coil on plug setup with his 408

*edit* lol i just saw that sorscode is already involved, never mind

Zero Signal · Nov 7, 2006

Top fuel dragsters have distributors, I don't see why it would be worth changing to something else. All the reasons Monsterbishi had listed are too insignificant to spend time and money with.

HISSIN50 · Nov 7, 2006

SorsCode said:
i'm doing this on my 408. Used a Crank Trigger from an Explorer harmonic Balanced and mounted it on my 28oz Balancer. Took a V6 Cam Position Sensor and modified it with a 5.0 Explorer CPS. Then Got the VRS from an Explorer and used the Explorer timing chain so I could mount that. Then last but not least a 4.6L T-bird EDIS8 Module. Then for the fun part on mine. I took a V6 EEC Harness which is OBD2 and modified it back to OBD1 used it so I had the Connector for the EDIS module and cleanier look. Then Modded a 4.6L GT (03) injector harness and wired it in up so I had Coil on Plug Ignition. I writing a writeup for this. BTW no Distributor and No plug wires make the engine bay so clean. If you don't understand I will try to explain better.

A very impressive undertaking.

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