engine build dilemma

undercnstrction · Aug 30, 2010

so here's my problem......

i've looked at and considered many different combos to put back into my GT.

1) i've considered a 351 (they supposedly cost the same to rebuild as a 302, but make more HP/torque)

2) a stroked 351 (again, supposedly cost roughly the same as a 302 but make considerably more HP/torque than a comparably built 302)

3) a 331

4) and even an LSx (stock 6.0 motor pumps out 400+ HP, with particular set of factory heads and a hot cam, will put down over 500 HP) combo.

the problem i'm having is that while all of the combos make considerably more HP than a 302 ever dreamed of, the big problem is that all of them require quite a few extra pieces/parts to make the combos work.

with the economy being what it is and this being my first ever project i don't want to go too much farther in over my head. by staying with "basic" bolt ons and the 302, i'll be able to reuse the trans i currently have, the clutch, inexpenisve headers, etc etc. All of the other combos i considered would require quite a bit more fabrication & money.

i do not have any HP goals for this build. so i'll take what i can get, cheaply and reliably. i know you can't get HP without $$, and if you want reliable HP, you'd better be prepared to shell out some real coin. i've read a number of threads about H/C/I changes. what other parts would be required for such a swap? will it need, new rockers/arms, piston, connecting rods, push rods, etc etc? if i go that route, i'll probably stick with iron heads because of money reason. i'm not going to be quite so strict with the suspension parts. i have a much clearer view of what i want to accomplish in that dept. the same goes for the interior. but when it comes to the motor, i'm having a pretty tough time on which way to go. any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated.

mwood · Aug 30, 2010

Your combo will only be as good as the HCI you put on it. Strocking out the motor without a new HCI is pointless. Then you have to consider the fuel system, TB, Injectors, ... If you are limited on motor funds, decide on a budget and there are those here that could give you ideas for that price. Depending on the budget, you could rebuild the stock bottom end and consider a hci with the appropriate TB, injectors, chip and so on. Look for a package setup that is intended to go on a stock bottom end.

PS, I'm assuming you have FI w mass air. I don't know what year you have.

PPS, to get a better idea of a HCI swap, check into a trick flow HCI swap. Talk to a tech.

mwood · Aug 30, 2010

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-K514-360350B - Trick Flow® 360 HP Twisted Wedge® Top-End Engine Kits for Ford 5.0L - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Gearbanger 101 · Aug 30, 2010

Sounds to me like you're surprised that making horsepower costs money? Unless you're alright with sticking with the stock short block and making power in the 300hp range, you're not going to be able to do it with any of the above options cheaply, so you'de better get used to the idea of shelling out some bucks. The fact of the matter is, is that it only gets more expensive the higher up the power ladder you climb..

Cobra912 · Aug 30, 2010

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

undercnstrction · Aug 31, 2010

Gearbanger 101 said:
Sounds to me like you're surprised that making horsepower costs money? Unless you're alright with sticking with the stock short block and making power in the 300hp range, you're not going to be able to do it with any of the above options cheaply, so you'de better get used to the idea of shelling out some bucks. The fact of the matter is, is that it only gets more expensive the higher up the power ladder you climb..

nope, not surprised at all. my point is that i have changed gears on what direction i'm taking the car. i was simply commenting on the different combos i have considered along the way. i was mainly trying to find out if i decide to go with a H/C/I change, what other parts are usually required to make those parts work. my original plan was to do a 408 (not cheap at all), then found out about the LSx motors and "decided" to go that route. an LS motor can be "built" for about 1/2 the money of a 408 and have more HP. I would still LOVE to do the LS swap (if i'm patient, i can pickup a 6.0 out of a truck for $250), but my biggest hangup with that setup is the fact i'd have to also go with a different trans, clutch setup, a new gauge package, etc etc.

shaolin crane.....are you pretty familiar with the LS swaps? any idea on what sort of "extra" parts would be required to get it running? i would probably switch it from FI to carb to eliminate the computer, but from what i've read the dash gauges can be a real problem. also, the headers alone seem to run about $1000 for that swap.

mwood......thanx for the link. i don't have any intention of stroking the 302 at this point. i have pretty much decided against that. you hit on somthing which is exactly what i was looking for.....when you start adding power such as a H/C/I, you also have to consider the fuel system. which means more parts to make the setup work properly. also a new computer "flash" to retune it. the cost continues to rise..LOL!

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

undercnstrction said:
nope, not surprised at all. my point is that i have changed gears on what direction i'm taking the car. i was simply commenting on the different combos i have considered along the way. i was mainly trying to find out if i decide to go with a H/C/I change, what other parts are usually required to make those parts work. my original plan was to do a 408 (not cheap at all), then found out about the LSx motors and "decided" to go that route. an LS motor can be "built" for about 1/2 the money of a 408 and have more HP. I would still LOVE to do the LS swap (if i'm patient, i can pickup a 6.0 out of a truck for $250), but my biggest hangup with that setup is the fact i'd have to also go with a different trans, clutch setup, a new gauge package, etc etc.

shaolin crane.....are you pretty familiar with the LS swaps? any idea on what sort of "extra" parts would be required to get it running? i would probably switch it from FI to carb to eliminate the computer, but from what i've read the dash gauges can be a real problem. also, the headers alone seem to run about $1000 for that swap.

mwood......thanx for the link. i don't have any intention of stroking the 302 at this point. i have pretty much decided against that. you hit on somthing which is exactly what i was looking for.....when you start adding power such as a H/C/I, you also have to consider the fuel system. which means more parts to make the setup work properly. also a new computer "flash" to retune it. the cost continues to rise..LOL!

I'm not 100% familiar as i havnt done it myself yet, but i will. What i can do is hook you up with some people that have done it before. I know the things that make it alot easier are the AJE k member, manual rack, and electric fans. The rest of it is pretty damn close and you could probably find a LS1 with a t56 still attached to it, just gotta move things a bit, custom drive shaft etc. But once its in. Head work and a cam and you're making PLENTY of power, couple that with giggle gas and you're good to go.

fiveohwblow · Aug 31, 2010

I'm proud to be making 500 ish horse with all stock bottom end. Done easily with a couple to few thousand dollars total. Not bad, stay ford.

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

fiveohwblow said:
I'm proud to be making 500 ish horse with all stock bottom end. Done easily with a couple to few thousand dollars total. Not bad, stay ford, but go with a LSx engine.

fixt

NIKwoaC · Aug 31, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
LS1

Ha, when did you become such a pot stirrer?

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

NikwoaC said:
Ha, when did you become such a pot stirrer?

How long have i been posting?
I was serious btw...

fiveohwblow · Aug 31, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
fixt

LOL, I appreciate your passion for power period, but I think there is something to be said about making a Ford move with Ford power. Are the more powerful cars out there? Probably on my own block! But I have yet to have them take me. z06 and the like!

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

fiveohwblow said:
LOL, I appreciate your passion for power period, but I think there is something to be said about making a Ford move with Ford power. Are the more powerful cars out there? Probably on my own block! But I have yet to have them take me. z06 and the like!

Did you forget im building ford power? For him, cheapest power would be an LS

fiveohwblow · Aug 31, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
Did you forget im building ford power? For him, cheapest power would be an LS

Valid points. Wouldnt just throwing a turbo kit or supercharger be cheaper than all that? In fact, I know it would. My buddy has a BONE stock 5.0 and payed 2500 for a BG Turbo kit, bought fuel mods for around 500 and has over 600 rw tq and mid 400's for rwhp. Stock heads, intake, cam etc...

undercnstrction · Aug 31, 2010

fiveohwblow said:
Valid points. Wouldnt just throwing a turbo kit or supercharger be cheaper than all that? In fact, I know it would. My buddy has a BONE stock 5.0 and payed 2500 for a BG Turbo kit, bought fuel mods for around 500 and has over 600 rw tq and mid 400's for rwhp. Stock heads, intake, cam etc...

seriously??!! how reliable would something like that be? you've got my attention......

while i'm not a purist in the sense that i get bent out of shape when someone puts ford in a chevy or a chevy in ford, the problem is the power seems so READILY available from the LS family of motors its almost disgusting. don't know how they do it but they worked some magic with those motors. but like i mentioned above, if you can provide some more specs on the ride you mentioned i'd love to see them. it's definitely worth a look.

as usual, thanx for the input.

fiveohwblow · Aug 31, 2010

undercnstrction said:
seriously??!! how reliable would something like that be? you've got my attention......

while i'm not a purist in the sense that i get bent out of shape when someone puts ford in a chevy or a chevy in ford, the problem is the power seems so READILY available from the LS family of motors its almost disgusting. don't know how they do it but they worked some magic with those motors. but like i mentioned above, if you can provide some more specs on the ride you mentioned i'd love to see them. it's definitely worth a look.

as usual, thanx for the input.

Certainly! He is actually a member on here , but doesnt get on often. I will give him a call and or text and get the exact kit he purchased. I know it went on without much hassle, he got it tuned once and its running flawlessly and he loves it. Been on for about 3 or 4 months now.

NIKwoaC · Aug 31, 2010

I'd like to see an actual cost sheet of a full LS swap, down to every last nut and bolt. Dropping a Windsor into a Fox is roughly $1000-$1500 in swap parts alone, and it is in the same engine family as the 302! I understand that the LS is a serious performer, but I have a hard time believing a LS swap is as easy or cheap as popular opinion is.

Also, the 400hp 6.0L is a Corvette/GTO engine, right? Not exactly falling out of trees as used, I'd think. The LS1 F-body engine is a little more common, but that's what, 310-325 hp, depending on the year....

Shaolin Crane · Aug 31, 2010

NikwoaC said:
I'd like to see an actual cost sheet of a full LS swap, down to every last nut and bolt. Dropping a Windsor into a Fox is roughly $1000-$1500 in swap parts alone, and it is in the same engine family as the 302! I understand that the LS is a serious performer, but I have a hard time believing a LS swap is as easy or cheap as popular opinion is.

Also, the 400hp 6.0L is a Corvette/GTO engine, right? Not exactly falling out of trees as used, I'd think. The LS1 F-body engine is a little more common, but that's what, 310-325 hp, depending on the year....

LS1's with tranny's go for about 1500 here, figure another 500 in supporting bolt in mods and you'd be set

fiveohwblow · Sep 1, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
I'm not 100% familiar as i havnt done it myself yet, but i will. What i can do is hook you up with some people that have done it before. I know the things that make it alot easier are the AJE k member, manual rack, and electric fans. The rest of it is pretty damn close and you could probably find a LS1 with a t56 still attached to it, just gotta move things a bit, custom drive shaft etc. But once its in. Head work and a cam and you're making PLENTY of power, couple that with giggle gas and you're good to go.

Shaolin Crane said:
LS1's with tranny's go for about 1500 here, figure another 500 in supporting bolt in mods and you'd be set

Would the supporting mods youre mentioning include a k member, steering rack, custom driveshaft and electric fans? Also, what about gauges and electronics i.e. computer..?

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