Engine sputters and stalls like out of gas

[notny41]

Hey guys, I've been doing some reading on other similar posts and decided to put this out there.

I bought a 65 fastback with 289 + motorcraft 4bbl and intake (originally had 2 bbl). I've only put a few hundred miles on the thing and I love the damn thing. But a couple of things have been surfacing.

1st - it starts right away (as long as you pump the pedal 5 times before cranking) then in order to keep it running I have to continuously tap the pedal for a couple minutes. The automatic choke does fully block off the one side of the carb but that doesn't seem to be enough to keep the car running on a cold start.

2nd - it has recently developed this bad habit of starting to run rough and then end up killing while you are going down the road after it has been running for quite a while. I've also noticed that the idle speed does not seem to stay consistant and the engine feels like it is missing most of the time.

The first time this happened I had 1/4 tank left and just figured the sender was screwed up and I didn't have any gas left. But when I went to fill it up it only took about 8 gallons to fill the tank. The last time it happened I was still thinking it was because of low gas but I had almost 1/2 tank left and still only took about 6 gallons to fill it up.

This problem seems to have started after I put a set of new leaf springs on the back. The car will start back up after a little while and run for a little while (almost seems like when you are putting the brakes on or sitting on a downward hill that the engine wants to fire back up.

I haven't tried anything yet to remedy this, but will look at the coil and wire now that I have read a little on the topic. I was going to replace the fuel filter next too. I did put some sea foam in the tank just before it happened again this last time...

 

[PONY XPRESS]

Old car, could be a lot of things. But sounds like fuel. When you take off the g/f open it up & see if it is dirty or clogged. You may also want to run a clear in line filter to monitor your flow & or dirt if any. Tank may be rusty & causing problem.

Good luck.

 

[notny41]

The g/f is that the gas filter? The previous owner put a new gas tank in, but that doesn't mean there isn't crud in the lines. Where can I get a clear inline filter? That's the one that screws right into the carb right?

Thanks

 

[PONY XPRESS]

Yes, g/f is gas filter & it screws into the carb. They do get clogged & will shut you down. Unscrew the filter & blow through it the way the fuel travels. If it is easy then filter is good, if hard filter is clogged. If you have a pipe cutter open the filter & inspect for rust, dirt, etc.

While the filter is out spray carb spray or brake cleaner into the hole that the filter threaded into. Your needle & seat may be sticking & causing your stalling.

Get a new filter & replace it & see what happens. A clear filter is an in line type & you will have to cut your fuel line to install it. Don't do that until you get back to us with the results.

 

[notny41]

I will definately check that out. In the mean time, I was looking at the coil and pulled the wire off that runs from it to the distributor cap and the end that plugs into the coil was fatter and more mushy than the rest of the wire. I'm thinking that the coil is getting too hot or it didn't have a good connection. I put the wire back on so the fat part was towards the dist. and the good end to the coil and was able to get me home after the car stalled again...

I will definately be looking into the fuel filter issue though. Could be multiple things going on here...

 

[KillerKittyCat]

I think you guys have missed the obvious. New rear leaf springs!! So now the car is sitting higher in the back. The PO put a 4bbl setup on it. And a new tank.

So I would check the float levels on the carb while [U]I rebuilt it!!![/U]
I would pull the sender unit and verify that it is actually installed correctly.
And I would verify fuel pump pressure.

Hope this helps!

 

[notny41]

I think I could take the carb apart and put it back together, but any instructions on how to check the float levels???

Good post Killer Kitty Cat. The back end does sit up about an inch and a half higher than it did before.

 

[KillerKittyCat]

All I am stating is look at the obvious. You tilted the car forward so your primary jets maybe sucking air if the floats are too low. Same with your sender unit if it is in the wrong place.

When you state Motorcraft I am assuming an 4100????? This will require you to remove the top of the carb and measure the float level. I would suggest that if you do not understand how to do this that you buy a Holley Street Avenger 570 or a Road Demon 525. Do not chase parts. Verify your fuel pressure from the tank to the carb.

PS. You still will not catch the Kitty!!

 

[notny41]

Well, as you can see from the picture, the wire from the coil to the distributor cap must have overheated or something (and there was some oily matter inside the coil where the wire plugs in) I think that since the wire got fatter and there was some kind of lube in there the wire probably worked its way out of the connection...

I had some extra spark plug wire leftover from a different car so I made a new wire that runs from the coil to the dist cap. I also took the fuel filter off and looked through it. It looked like there was some sort of screen or membrane inside. I blew into it and there was a bit of resistance, but overall I think the air flowed pretty unrestricted.

I took it out for a little while after making the new wire and it did not do the stall thing, although it did run a little rough most of the time. It did seem like when I sat at a stop sign at an incline and let the engine idle for a minute and then took off it was quite smooth so I'm thinking that it may have to do with the float level.

While I was looking things over, I notice that the front tires (that were brand new about 300 miles ago) have some major wear on the insides of them. So the first thing I am going to do is replace the shocks and springs in the front and maybe in doing so, it will balance the car out again to where it will run good. I'll let you know.

By the way (since you have a Cougar), my two oldest brothers had a 67 Cougar XR7 and a 67 Fairlane, respectively. One time I was riding in the Cougar and these two brothers were going to race their cars. At the start of the race, the Cougar burnt the tires so much on the start that I thought the car was on fire. I think it had a 370 or 390 in it or something. The Fairlane won that one because of the lack of hook up due to lighting up the tires...

Also included a picture of my carb since I have no idea what model it is. All I know is that it has the tag on one of the screws that says FoMoCo and some numbers on it.

P

 

[PONY XPRESS]

Test the wire you took off with an ohm meter & let us know what number you get.

On the tires. If you have significant wear after only 300mi you have something way out of wack. Either your toe or camber is excessive, or you have a component that is NG. Don't do shocks & springs till you figure out why your wearing out the tires.

You can check toe pretty easy with a tape measurer. Camber can be done with a level, but easier with small portable gauges, maybe you can borrow one.

 

[notny41]

Well the wire started at 10.8k ohms when I first put the connectors on it and very slowly dropped to 9.52k ohms - what should it be at?

Regarding the tire wear...I uscrewed the two bolts on each side holding the shock to the shock towers and neither shock extended. Each have no gas left in them. Also, the top of the shocks are pushed in towards the engine when the bolts are removed. In order to get them into position where the bolts go, I have to give them considerable amount of torque. So I decided to lift up on the front wheel well and when I lifted just a little on each side the tops of the shocks came back to the position that they should be to bolt them on. So, I am going to put new springs and shocks on anyway.

After that I think I will look at cam and camber. What are the correct measurements for each of these and with basic tools how to I measure it?

Thanks!

 

[PONY XPRESS]

Check out this site as they can explain it better I can.

http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

Alignment can be a very personal thing in the sense that it makes a big difference in how the car feels & what it does. Road race, drag race will use different specs. Even street settings can make a big difference. All that being said & I assume your car is a street car try to achieve.

1.0 Degree neg camber each wheel
1/8" toe in total
Positive caster 4 degrees
This will be a good starting point.
Nice thing about older cars you can easerly adjust them as a lot of the modern cars cannot be adjusted without some modifications.

I run closer to 2 degree negative camber for better handeling.
1/16" toe out for quicker turn in
caster is about 4 degrees positive as I like a tight feel & high speed stability

Your coil wire looks about 2' long. I would say that the resistance numbers you have are high. At about 2' you should be about 1/2 of what you were reading.

Your shocks maybe conventional shocks without gas so they will not move when released.

Hope this helps.

 

[notny41]

The wire measured 13.5" - not sure how that would affect the numbers. I also checked the new one I made and it came in at 4.31k ohms. Any idea on what affect the higher ohms would have on the overall performance?

Do you measure the cam and camber when the front of the car is lifted off the ground?

 

[PONY XPRESS]

The shorter the wire the lower your resistance should be. Set your ohm meter to the thousand setting. As you see your new wire is about 1/2 of the old. 4300 sounds OK for your new wire. Less resistance will give you a better spark. Check the rest of your wires since you still have a miss or rough idle. I would say anything over 8K on a long wire may be suspect.

There are tricks to do an alignment with the wheels off the ground, but you really need to be an expert to achieve the desired results.

You need to do it on a level spot with the suspension at correct ride height. If you want to get anal you could also add weight to the drivers side to simulate you in the car, but not really necessary for a street car.

It is a time consuming process & it may be easier for you to have a shop do it the first time & then you can monitor it yourself. Some shops will let you watch as they do it