Fire and Ice

SN65 · Aug 31, 2006

It is in a 69 sportsroof...

Sicarius428 · Aug 31, 2006

Can I make a suggestion on the framework. The rear and the front looks really rigid and shouldn't have much flex but besides the subframes, there isn't much to keep it from flexing in the middle other than the roofline. Maybe some bars that come out from the roll bar allong the door that attach to the floor similar to an 8 point roll cage. I was just thinking of the inate nature of a flexible chassis is that everything gives a little and with such a rigid front and rear... the middle will be the part that will give. On a good turn with traction to plant the outside tire you will probably end up putting a lot of pressure on the apillars.
Kevin

DukeGnarley · Aug 31, 2006

That rear cage looks cool, but i think it's probably overkill and some of the extra bracing on it will end up being just dead weight.

mtbdoc · Aug 31, 2006

Remember: two different cars. The cage is shown for the straightline car. Similar to my 'vert. Not made for the twisties.

It is confusing as he shows the turbo I-6 [for the road course car] in a post next to the caged coupe [1/4 mi car].

Jester67 · Aug 31, 2006

IMHO, that cage will do no more than keep the roof up in a role over. It will not stiffen up the chassis anymore than good sub-frames.

1320stang · Aug 31, 2006

Yeah, I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel with that tube work.

68FBJJZ109 · Aug 31, 2006

The only question i have is will that front cage clear the master cylinder and the hood hinges running through and connecting to the shock towers. I am just curious because i want to tie my shock towers into a roll cage, just i am not at the step.

SN65 said:
Here is a sketch of the proposed "cage"

We will tie the front of the cage to the torque box area and the rear to the rear suspension mounting points.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

Sicarius428 said:
Can I make a suggestion on the framework. The rear and the front looks really rigid and shouldn't have much flex but besides the subframes, there isn't much to keep it from flexing in the middle other than the roofline. Maybe some bars that come out from the roll bar allong the door that attach to the floor similar to an 8 point roll cage. I was just thinking of the inate nature of a flexible chassis is that everything gives a little and with such a rigid front and rear... the middle will be the part that will give. On a good turn with traction to plant the outside tire you will probably end up putting a lot of pressure on the apillars.
Kevin

Yes, I agree with you on this one. The center section is going to be the weak link.

I am considering extending the cage to the front of the car, but, in doing so, the cars become less practical for street use, which is a major consideration.

I am thinking about the "A" pillar problem. I have had a couple of ideas, but nothig that has jumped out and bit me yet.

I will keep working at it. The final product should be functional andthe design should be eligant when complete.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

DukeGnarley said:
That rear cage looks cool, but i think it's probably overkill and some of the extra bracing on it will end up being just dead weight.

Yes, the cage is a bit "overkill" but I need something that is both functional and has a certain amount of eye appeal.

The extra bracing is a bit over the top, but I was going to build the main segments of the cage with 1.75x.125 tube and the rest out of lightweight thin wall tubing to keep the weight to a minimum.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

mtbdoc said:
Remember: two different cars. The cage is shown for the straightline car. Similar to my 'vert. Not made for the twisties.

It is confusing as he shows the turbo I-6 [for the road course car] in a post next to the caged coupe [1/4 mi car].

I am going to have to try and keep this straight. I am hopeing that this type of confusion will fade away when we start to work on the cars themselves.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

1320stang said:
Yeah, I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel with that tube work.

Unfortunately, you are correct. I just can't put something in the car that we did not engineer ourselves. My problem is that I am used to designing the supporting structure and platforms for large water tanks and pressure vessels. You tend to go a bit over the top when designing structures located in a seismic zone supporting tens of thousands of pounds.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

Jester67 said:
IMHO, that cage will do no more than keep the roof up in a role over. It will not stiffen up the chassis anymore than good sub-frames.

Yes and no.

Yes the cage will keep the roof up during a role over, but it will also stiffen up the rear suspension mounting points as well as tie together the rear frame rails helping to eliminate twist.

If I design the cage correctly, any force that tries to move one of the 4 mounting points (up or down) will be transmitted to the other 3 points. If this is done properly, the rear section should end up quite a bit stiffer with the cage than without.

All of these issues sould be laid to rest when we actually get to test the modifications for torsional stability. I for one, am currious as to the finnal results.

SN65 · Sep 1, 2006

68FBJJZ109 said:
The only question i have is will that front cage clear the master cylinder and the hood hinges running through and connecting to the shock towers. I am just curious because i want to tie my shock towers into a roll cage, just i am not at the step.

The structure we are adding to the front end of the car will not interfear with any of the "stock" mustang components.

6T6coupe · Sep 1, 2006

This is the Ford XR6 turbo with the "Cobra" package making 450Kw (603hp) in the BA Falcon. The stock XR6 Turbo "only" makes 360 hp.

The DOHC is very similar in packaging dimensions to the older 200-250 and the Crossflow, and it would be an easy fit in an early Stang. I looked at these DOHC motors several years ago for my coupe, but ended up with the Crossflow due to cost. At the time, rebuildable Crossflows could be had for next to nothing. Mine is a mild 250 and makes approximately 220 hp. With the 5 speed iin the lightweight early coupe, it is a match for most stock GT's.

Anyway, the point is, the new FordSix Turbo EFI, the XR6 Turbo, and the earlier Crossflows, SOHC, and DOHC naturally aspirated motors all exist and are interesting and powerful alternatives to the typical V8. I can't wait to see what Mike Winterboer's new cylinder head will do with a little boost and EFI. It just takes a little more imagination and creativity. Fire and Ice are great examples of that.

Sicarius428 · Sep 1, 2006

Maybe a swing out or low profile bar... Either way I am sure you will figure out a good solution.
Kevin

GNN60GT500 · Sep 1, 2006

SN65 said:
The structure we are adding to the front end of the car will not interfear with any of the "stock" mustang components.

Hey SN65- not to get off topic for a minute- but Im looking forward to seeing your car for the first time at SEMA...(I work for Magnaflow)

See you there-

SN65 · Sep 6, 2006

GNN60GT500 said:
Hey SN65- not to get off topic for a minute- but Im looking forward to seeing your car for the first time at SEMA...(I work for Magnaflow)

See you there-

Look forward to seeing you there.

This very second, the Sn65 is motoring its way around the Putnam race track. Wayne is taking Jim Ring (you know, Jim of the Ring Brothers) for one of the trial laps arond the course.

They are at the Air Rides media event. Pretty cool considering that we don't have an air ride suspension on the car. We are one of only two cars (without air ride suspensions) to ever be invited to the event.

Wayne will be piloting the SN65 around the track. I hope he takes it easy, but I also hope he does us proud. Lets keep our fingers crossed that he drives safe and kicks A$$.

SN65 · Sep 6, 2006

Wayne just called and said the SN65 has the fastest time on the autocross.... So far.....

Jester67 · Sep 6, 2006

ozstang65 · Sep 8, 2006

Hi Bob, glad you found your engine I've seen reports of these things doing sub 13 second quarters, stock, in an 1800kg car!

Good luck, can't wait to see the results!

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