Forced induction question???
- Thread starter JiXeRz GT
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Five Oh Brian
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For consistency at the drag strip, get one that's intercooled to prevent/minimize heat soak as much as possible, otherwise the car will get slower as you make more runs and generate more heat. As nearly any super/trubo charger can be had with an intercooler, that still doesn't narrow down your search much.
More important question would be how fast you want to go, how much power you're looking to make, what operating range (rpm's) you're looking to maximize, and other modifications you already have or are planned. Is there a particular budget you have to work with, or will you spend whatever it takes? Do you want to maintain the factory warranty? et cetera.
All the supercharger and turbo kits out there will make great power gains over stock, so there really aren't any bad kits. But, there are certainly some differences in cost & operation that are worth considering.
NastyStang113
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Five Oh Brian
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anthony05gt
Active Member
I like and have the Ford Racing/Whipple HO kit. It's a complete kit with the largest heat exhanger and intercooler of any twin screw kit. It also comes complete with everything you need including GT500 fuel system, spark plugs and a host of Ford OEM parts to complete the kit. I highly recommend it. The low end torque is full and strong right off idle and it pulls hard to redline. Great kit for street or strip.
klaw
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NastyStang113
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LOL.. Budget? Where do you see any indication that this guy is on a budget? This guy is trying to go all out. The Roush TVS is a great blower and especially for people wanting to have future potential which I bet this guy does.
The TVS is the most efficient Roots style blower to come out so far, the Whipple is a twin screw blower. Twin screw blowers are more efficient than roots style, but the TVS is supposed to be capable of roughly the same amount of power as the twin screws. The new vette ZR1 has a TVS blower on it.
Centrifugal blowers such as Procharger and Vortech will not make as much power down low as a roots or twin screw, but make a lot of power at high rpm. They also tend to be easier to install which might save you some money.
Another option worth consideration is turbocharging, there are several systems out right now.
Centrifugal blowers such as Procharger and Vortech will not make as much power down low as a roots or twin screw, but make a lot of power at high rpm. They also tend to be easier to install which might save you some money.
Another option worth consideration is turbocharging, there are several systems out right now.
Actually....the TVS is about as much a roots blower as a Kenne Bell or Whipple is. The only thing they have in common with the previous "Roots" set up (which BTW has actually been a hybrid design for several years now) is that they're both positive displacement in designation and both manufactured by Eaton. Furthermore, since the TVS produces no internal compression, ACT's are actually lower than that of the modern Twin Screw as are it's efficiency levels. Compare the two head to head with the same displacement and the TVS will actually make more power at lower boost levels while producing less heat.
I can't speak to the supercharger but can to the turbo. I just recently had the Hellion 62mm kit installed and other than a tune glitch I have been very happy with the street manners and power.
The car drives and reacts like a normal GT until I get into it. This allows me to tool around my daily driver and get into the power when I need or want to. 440 HP on tap is nice.
Now that being said I have never driven a SC car but would love to compare the drive ability, response, and gas mileage between the two systems. I bet I would like the SC as much as my turbo.
I'm not an engineer but I understand the concept of parasitic loss and believe that a SC is harder on an engine, all other things being equal, than a turbo over time. Considering that a turbo typically has a larger " area under the curve" than a SC and when I am ready (and can afford) a stout short block my turbo can take me to 600hp I decided upon the Hellion kit.
Was it the best decision? I dunno but I like my daily driver.
The car drives and reacts like a normal GT until I get into it. This allows me to tool around my daily driver and get into the power when I need or want to. 440 HP on tap is nice.
Now that being said I have never driven a SC car but would love to compare the drive ability, response, and gas mileage between the two systems. I bet I would like the SC as much as my turbo.
I'm not an engineer but I understand the concept of parasitic loss and believe that a SC is harder on an engine, all other things being equal, than a turbo over time. Considering that a turbo typically has a larger " area under the curve" than a SC and when I am ready (and can afford) a stout short block my turbo can take me to 600hp I decided upon the Hellion kit.
Was it the best decision? I dunno but I like my daily driver.
NastyStang113
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anthony05gt
Active Member
Typically a roots style blower does not make the top end power of a twin screw and both have gobs of power down low. The new TVS blower is much better than previous roots systems, but I haven't seen a dyno sheet for the TVS yet. I doubt it makes the same top end power as a twin screw.
On another note check this one out> New Techco 3L Supercharger - ModularFords.com
Now this looks like it will be the tops in supercharging.
On another note check this one out> New Techco 3L Supercharger - ModularFords.com
Now this looks like it will be the tops in supercharging.
If you would like to install the SC yourself, I stand by my choice of Kenne Bell. The Roush TVS wasn't available when I selected, bought and installed mine or it might have been a tougher decision for me (between the two). I helped my son install a Procharger centrifugal on his 2005 V6 and I'd never do that job again. The tubing to/from the aftercooler was a real PIA for fitment. Also he had weeks of downtime getting the correct tune from ATI for the V6. It runs great now that it's installed, but no fun was had during the actual install. I should think the tubing for a turbo would present the same PIA issues. Add in the heat management, I'm just not a fan of the turbo approach on V8s (although for 4 cyls it might be a totally different story). My wife and I installed the KB ourselves, every little step perfectly documented, pictures, etc. And the whine from a twin screw is just the coolest thing ever. If you're looking to hire a professional shop install, then I'd let Whipple into consideration as well. I still prefer the KB for several reasons, but it's a personal choice.
Five Oh Brian
Member
And now for something completely different...
Here's a thought about centrifugals. While it is really satisfying to get the instant, low rpm grunt of a roots or twin screw, for a street driven car that instant boost really makes traction an issue. I've driven plenty of roots-blown cars and love that big-block style grunt, and it's fun to light 'em up at will, but it's not terribly productive from an acceleration standpoint (on street tires).
A centrifugal makes a lot less torque down low (on average) vs the roots & twin screws, so launching is less dramatic. As the rpm's rise, so does boost and horsepower. The centrifugals make great upper rpm power at the expense of low end, but you can launch easier on the street while still having power up top at the track.
If I would have gone with a roots or twin screw blower for my daily driver, I think I would have felt the need to have drag radials on the car 365 days a year. However, having a centrifugal blower makes my GT a very easy to drive daily. I'm down on power vs the guys with roots & twin screws, but I have a car that's very easy to live with on a daily basis that met my goals at the dragstrip (mid 12's at 110 mph in the 1/4 mile). And as with other types of blowers, I can upgrade mine easily for more power should I ever want more power.
Here's a thought about centrifugals. While it is really satisfying to get the instant, low rpm grunt of a roots or twin screw, for a street driven car that instant boost really makes traction an issue. I've driven plenty of roots-blown cars and love that big-block style grunt, and it's fun to light 'em up at will, but it's not terribly productive from an acceleration standpoint (on street tires).
A centrifugal makes a lot less torque down low (on average) vs the roots & twin screws, so launching is less dramatic. As the rpm's rise, so does boost and horsepower. The centrifugals make great upper rpm power at the expense of low end, but you can launch easier on the street while still having power up top at the track.
If I would have gone with a roots or twin screw blower for my daily driver, I think I would have felt the need to have drag radials on the car 365 days a year. However, having a centrifugal blower makes my GT a very easy to drive daily. I'm down on power vs the guys with roots & twin screws, but I have a car that's very easy to live with on a daily basis that met my goals at the dragstrip (mid 12's at 110 mph in the 1/4 mile). And as with other types of blowers, I can upgrade mine easily for more power should I ever want more power.
Again....the TVS is not a "Roots Blower" and you seem to be confusing the two. The differences between the 1st and 5th Gen Eaton as well as the new 6th Gen TVS is night are day.
A traditional "Roots" style blower has a strait cut 2-loeb design with the inlet entrance mid set within the case. Holley/Weiand blowers still use this design if I'm not mistaken? They're nice because their inexpensive, very reliable and can be built to mammoth proportions to suit any engine displacement, but they're not exactly the most efficient design out there.
The 3rd Gen Eaton’s weren't even considered traditional Roots blowers anymore, because of their newer 60-degree 3-lobe twist rotor design, with closer tolerances and more efficient rear entry inlet (3rd Gen). By all definitions, they're at best considered a Hybrid Roots design and are far superior to their predecessor.
Eaton went one step further having Magnuson design the 4th and 5th Generation MP Series superchargers, (which to be honest would be more comparable to a Modern Twin Screw than the TVS would).
The 4th and 5th Gen Eaton’s have a completely different case design that increased both strength and rigidity (which allowed for closer tolerances), as well as a drastically improved inlet/outlet design for increased efficiency and lesser horsepower consumption They’re now also built with an integrated internal bypass valve and have the option for coated rotors which improved tolerances further still (5th Gen). They’re far.....far superior to the old strait cut "Roots" blowers that we all so commonly refer to them as and aren’t even in the same league by comparison.
Magnuson recently compared the 5th Gen MP design to that of a modern Twin Screw (an Magnuson MP112 vs. a Whipple 2300) on a 5.3L LS series engine. The engine was completely stock with the exception of a custom camshaft and Z06 valve springs. When pitted up against one and other, the MP112 bested the Whipple by 50lbs/ft of torque at 1,500RPM and continued to outperform the larger Twin screw until 5,700RPM where at nearly the end of the power band the 2300 finally took the lead. In the end though, the Whipple 2300’s top end victory was attributed to its larger displacement (2.3L vs. 1.85L) and therefore deeper breathing capability over the Eaton MP112 and not because it was the more efficient design of the two. Truth be told, they're actually very comparable to one and other. I've seen one make as much horsepower as the other on various applications. Just the other day rfedd emailed my Dyno results from a mildly modified 2-Valve Saleen with Tork Teck blower kit on it. It utilized a 5th Generation Magnuson supercharger and made 520 rwhp and 549.50 rwtq @ 14psi. That’s as good (or better) as any Twin Screw I've ever seen.
Don’t be so sure of that. Comparing smaller displacement, earlier model Eaton’s or lesser comparable Centrifugal Superchargers to larger, more robust Twin Screw compressors is an advertising propaganda that companies like Kenne Bell is all too familiar with. They do this in order to make the Twin Screw’s top end efficiency levels look much greater than they actually are. I mean.....if they make more power up top, it must be because the blower itself is more efficient, right? There's no way it could have anything at all to do with the sheer difference in the displacement between the two, right? As long as people keep eating it up, they’ll keep preaching it too.
As a matter of fact, without even seeing the two run head to head I can ensure you that with all things being equal, the TVS will make more top end power. The TVS blower takes things even further than its 5th Generation predecessor with an improved case design, 160-degree twist 4-loeb high helix rotor design and an advance 180-degree rear entry inlet and high velocity outlet. Flow ratings are improved further still and horsepower consumption is reduced. And since there is no internal compression (unlike a modern Twin Screw which compresses air all the time.....whether you’re under pressure, or not), discharge temperature are actually lower by comparison as a result.
Drag racing: TS type blower/Auto trans/Drag Radials
Road Course: Centri w/AtoA cooler/Manual Trans (less heat soak)
...or turbo? (not sure about heat soak)
Compromise: Roots type/Manual trans, which is precisely why the GT500 comes with the roots style...it is a compromise car. Heat soak less w/roots, torque more than centri.
TVS: designed for lower compression pistions in GT500 (double digit boost). GT is high compression engine, stay with blowers designed for this.
For stock pistons/drivetrain stay with single digit boost. Double digit boost will stress stock bottom end and drivetrain.
Road Course: Centri w/AtoA cooler/Manual Trans (less heat soak)
...or turbo? (not sure about heat soak)
Compromise: Roots type/Manual trans, which is precisely why the GT500 comes with the roots style...it is a compromise car. Heat soak less w/roots, torque more than centri.
TVS: designed for lower compression pistions in GT500 (double digit boost). GT is high compression engine, stay with blowers designed for this.
For stock pistons/drivetrain stay with single digit boost. Double digit boost will stress stock bottom end and drivetrain.
Thank you guys for all your help! Im close to making my decision on what to get! I'm gonna look over these post again before I make my final decision. It's Procharger vs Roush TVS vs Kenne Bell/Whipple. Once again...THANK you all!
Also guys I was just on roushperformance.com and the TVS is not out of my budget at all. Part# 403994 roush performance 2.3L TVS
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