Fox TB conversion progress pics

Killercanary · May 13, 2008

I'm still working on my fox TB swap. I only get a few hours a night to work on the car and I've been doing a number of things to it while I work on the fox TB conversion. Tomorrow night I'm going to powdercoat the inlet pipe. My dad and I made our own pipe and welded in a bung for the ACT sensor, a nipple for my PCV valve vacuum source (I'm moving out in front of the TB to help eliminate my oil in the intake problem that is common with holley intakes), and a flange to bolt it to the inner fender. I have to relocate my CCRM as my new filter hits it where I had it mounted before. I also have to move my TFI as the new filter also hits it.

Here's some pics from the other night. I'll post up some more tomorrow when I get the pipe powdercoated.

69clark · May 13, 2008

Looking good Paul!

BlackVert · May 13, 2008

very nice. i keep forgetting that you no longer have a mass air meter

Killercanary · May 13, 2008

Thanks Tom!

BlackVert said:
very nice. i keep forgetting that you no longer have a mass air meter

LOL! Its a beautiful thing and made this swap a hell of a lot easier. I was able to run a much larger air filter since I didn't need the room for the MAF too which should help to maximize power.

Just from eyeballing this setup compared to my 94-95 style, this fox style HAS to make more power than what I had.

BlackVert · May 13, 2008

um, seems to me that if the PCV nipple is in front of the TB, there won't be much vacuum

i mean, isn't the closed throttle blade the reason for the vacuum?

i have to cut out my inner fender like you have yours ... i have 2 90* bends from my filter to the maf

Killercanary · May 13, 2008

BlackVert said:
um, seems to me that if the PCV nipple is in front of the TB, there won't be much vacuum

i mean, isn't the closed throttle blade the reason for the vacuum?

i have to cut out my inner fender like you have yours ... i have 2 90* bends from my filter to the maf

Yes you are correct, but at idle and when the TB is closed you don't need to pull vacuum on the PCV anyway. At WOT and high RPM's is when you need to pull vacuum on the PCV and having it here will still have vacuum when the TB is open. This was suggested to me when I noticed how much oil the intake was taking in and discovered it was a common problem with the holley intakes. When I pull the lower off to replace the heads I may beat the metal baffle that is under the intake down a little to seal it off a little more to help with the oil problem too and at that point I may plumb it back into the intake behind the TB.

I used a die grinder to cut my inner fender and it was fairly easiy to do. It was loud and messy as hell, but it worked and cut pretty straight. I cut a piece of vacuum hose last night and lined the inside edges of my cuts with it to protect the air filter.

urban96 · May 13, 2008

ot... hey paul, you bought that hood from MPS right? was it made by kaenen? how was the fit/finish? i remember you had problems with it hitting your c/c plates

Blackened302 · May 13, 2008

it's turning out nicely, Paul! did i miss something? when'd you get rid of the your MAF? how?

BlackVert · May 13, 2008

Blackened302 said:
it's turning out nicely, Paul! did i miss something? when'd you get rid of the your MAF? how?

He went with a different engine management system that does not use a MAF ... iirc, it is an AEM.

Redsnk95 · May 13, 2008

Looks good Paul! Very clean setup there.

95opal · May 14, 2008

Paul now you really have peaked my interest in this fox conversion. As I look at your set up compared to mine they look almost identical as far as bends and what not. My question is how much hp is really going to be gained from the conversion? At this point I dont see a reason why you would gain anything. So please do the back to back pulls before you swap heads and post up your findings.

View attachment 317938
View attachment 317939

drewzx3 · May 14, 2008

Got a sn tb for sale?

YEAHLOH95 · May 14, 2008

drewzx3 said:
Got a sn tb for sale?

yes check my sig i'm going fox tb too.

BlackVert · May 14, 2008

95opal said:
My question is how much hp is really going to be gained from the conversion? At this point I dont see a reason why you would gain anything.

i think the only possible are of improvement is the elbow. i have a 75mm elbow going into a 75mm thorttle body, and i can't how a fox setup can make it more efficient. looks to me like the bend is more extreme on the fox, but maybe since the TB is after the bend, the air flows more easily through the intake at WOT

Black95GTS · May 14, 2008

BlackVert said:
i think the only possible are of improvement is the elbow. i have a 75mm elbow going into a 75mm thorttle body, and i can't how a fox setup can make it more efficient. looks to me like the bend is more extreme on the fox, but maybe since the TB is after the bend, the air flows more easily through the intake at WOT

I concur, I could never understand the power increase from just a fox switch assuming you had already ditched the stock intake and had the same number of bends. I think the gains here will come because removing the MAF removes an obstruction to incoming air. Whether the bend is in pre cast metal or hose, its still a bend at essentially the same angle. I think the only way to improve the design is to run the air intake straight out of the manifold and hit the passenger side firewall perpendicularly.

Paul, where did you mount your MAP sensor? How many BAR can it see? Did you have enough vacuum outlets to tie into it easily? I was thrown for a loop until I remember you switched. I think if the MAP technology had developed as fast as MAF, we'd all be running MAP right now. Not to mention it's a huge cosmetic improvement.

Adam

BlackVert · May 15, 2008

Black95GTS said:
I concur, I could never understand the power increase from just a fox switch assuming you had already ditched the stock intake and had the same number of bends.

iirc, the other difference that can make people think there is a bigger difference than there really is, is the way the fox throttle bodies open faster than do the 94/95 ones. ours have a more elliptical throttle blade boss, so it opens more slowly on light throttle for the same amount of cable pull.

Killercanary · May 15, 2008

I have had my own doubts for years on whether or not the fox TB conversion was worth it or not. I plan to do back to back dyno pulls with comparing the fox and 94-95 TB.

The one thing that I think you guys are forgetting is that the elbow has a step up AND a bend... these are two things that air flow hates, both of which are present with the 94-95 style elbow. I know looks can be deceiving, but by seeing these two designs side by side there is not a doubt in my mind that the fox will make more power than the 94-95 setup... no doubt at all.

Paul, where did you mount your MAP sensor? How many BAR can it see? Did you have enough vacuum outlets to tie into it easily? I was thrown for a loop until I remember you switched. I think if the MAP technology had developed as fast as MAF, we'd all be running MAP right now. Not to mention it's a huge cosmetic improvement.

It's zip tied to the AC line behind the TB. I forget off the top pf my head, but its at least a 2.5 bar sensor... I know I can read over 30lbs of boost with it. I just T'd it into a small vacuum line that was coming out of the rear of the intake. I'll get pics of it later. I thought MAF's were the end all, be all and was reluctant to run this car with a MAP sensor, but as you said there are a lot of benefits to it. I can't wait to hear my blow-off valve with this setup when I put the turbo on as I can vent it to the atmosphere instead of having to plumb it back into the intake tract as I would with a MAF.

95opal · May 15, 2008

Killercanary said:
The one thing that I think you guys are forgetting is that the elbow has a step up AND a bend... these are two things that air flow hates, both of which are present with the 94-95 style elbow. I know looks can be deceiving, but by seeing these two designs side by side there is not a doubt in my mind that the fox will make more power than the 94-95 setup... no doubt at all.

Paul, please elaborate on the step up you are talking about. As I know when I look through my elbow its a straight through design no abnormal step or anything like that. Im not sure if the TFS elbow is different than what you have used previously, but its 75mm right into the intake. As far as the bend goes, it is present on both set ups and actually looks more drastic on the fox set up. Again Im just not a believer until its proven and Im not talking 2-3rwhp either. For it to be worth the trouble of converting it will take more than that to sway my decision.

Killercanary · May 15, 2008

I'm finished with the TB conversion besides the cruise cable. I still have a number of things to do before it is ready to start, but here are the final pics:

In order to make the switch between the fox and 94-95 TB setup as quick as possible, I wired in a weatherpack connector so that I still have a plug and play deal with the TPS harness. Here's a pic of what I made, I still have to tape the wires together but you get the idea:

I cut some vacuum line and lined my inner fender to protect my air filter. I also powdercoated the inlet tube last night. I want to make a cover for the filter to protect it from underhood heat, but as you can see 90% of the filter is in the inner fender:

Finished project:

69clark · May 16, 2008

Looks great powder coated.

Fox TB conversion progress pics

Killercanary

The car that set the bar.

69clark

BlackVert

Killercanary

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Killercanary

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urban96

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Blackened302

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Fox TB conversion progress pics

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