Front Brakes Question

[PonyGTrider]

Hi All,
I have this issue/question about my front brake pads. My ride is a '90 GT with the '01 bullitt mustang brakes upgrade. Looking at the disc wear or the pads contact it seems like the pads are too narrow and more disc surface could be effectively used. It seems that the performance set of Hawk pads are wider than the stock ones, is that real? Or are there any other good wider pads I can use to add more braking power?

 

[Mstng93SSP]

I have 3 foxbody mustangs all with 5 lug and cobra brake conversions. They all look the same as yours as far as pad surface contact. I think it is just the way they were designed. I have not experienced any pads having a different contact area than stock. For me the best pads I have used are factory ford pads.

 

[PonyGTrider]

I have 3 foxbody mustangs all with 5 lug and cobra brake conversions. They all look the same as yours as far as pad surface contact. I think it is just the way they were designed. I have not experienced any pads having a different contact area than stock. For me the best pads I have used are factory ford pads.

Oh by the way and sorry about my indiscretion and since you have more experience on this topic, will you share what master cylinder are you using with your upgrades? I have a ’95 mustang V6/GT master cylinder. Pedal feel is good but seems I don't have enough clamping force and it stops but I could use a better brake power, or if you have manual brakes again what MC?
Thank you in advance

 

[Mstng93SSP]

What brake booster are you using? If you have stock foxbody booster that is your issue. You need a 93 cobra booster or a 94/95 booster. A stock foxbody booster will give you a hard pedal. The master cylinder you are using is fine.

 

[PonyGTrider]

What brake booster are you using? If you have stock foxbody booster that is your issue. You need a 93 cobra booster or a 94/95 booster. A stock foxbody booster will give you a hard pedal. The master cylinder you are using is fine.

By God that don’t remember, I want to say that it is 94/95 but I did upgraded it.
Maybe I was expecting much more better stopping power.
This is the BB I have…

 

[Mstng93SSP]

Yeah, it looks like a 94/95 booster. Should be fine.

 

[PonyGTrider]

Ok,
Well I guess i had higher expectations but probably my brakes are working the best they can. For the rest of the system I have a Willwood proportioning valve for the rear and front ’99-’02 Mustang Cobra Goodridge G-Stop Braided lines, So I guess is just me demanding more

I thank you for overviewing my set up

 

[stanglx2002]

What pads are you running? You have all the needed components of the brake system, so the only variable that is left is the pads themselves. Yes, performance pads will provide better "bite" over the stock ceramic pads since they are more focused on less dust than stopping power.

 

[PonyGTrider]

Right now I have some cheap Akebono ceramic pads, But to be fair before this set I had the Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads; Front Pair (94-04 Cobra, Bullitt, Mach 1) and frankly they were no that much better than this last set, the biggest difference was that those Hawk pads didn't brake too good when cold and just a hair better than the Akebono when warm/hot. That's Why I posted this thread because I felt something was going on with my conversion, and needed some opinions

Truly appreciate your time and suggestions. Thank you

 

[KRUISR]

What brakes do you have on the rear? Disc or drum? If disc, what size rotor and what caliper using?

Rear brakes can make the system feel not as strong as you are expecting if undersized. Only asking because you didn't mention.

 

[PonyGTrider]

What brakes do you have on the rear? Disc or drum? If disc, what size rotor and what caliper using?

Rear brakes can make the system feel not as strong as you are expecting if undersized. Only asking because you didn't mention.

I have the full brakes kit from 2001 Special Edition Mustang Bullitt kit, front 13" diameter and rear 11.650" diameter. Rear BIAS adjusted via Willwood proportioning valve.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

My 1992 Mustang GT autocross car has 03/04 Cobra 13" front brakes, 11.65" rear brakes, a 1993 Cobra MC, the OEM 1992 GT brake booster, braided SS front and center brake lines, and an SSBC proportioning valve. With Hawk HP-Plus pads up front, and Hawk HPS pads in the rear, the car stops really well. The brakes have great initial bite, and a good consistent feel. Brake pads make a big difference, and they are often a personal choice based on driving style. Are you using the car for performance driving? Or just street use? Are you concerned about brake dust/noise? The HP-Plus pads give off a LOT of dust, and squeal a bit on the street. Have you tried bleeding the brakes again to see if that makes a difference?

 

[PonyGTrider]

Thanks for sharing your set up. I will try some other pads and see if have a better feeling. Yes the bleeding process as well as system flush and fluid replacement is performed routinely thru speed bleeders. I’m positive there is no air in the system, no spongy pedal. Just not too impressed with the system performance… Again, maybe it is just me

 

[90sickfox]

I have 04 cobra rear, 04 cobra front brakes, 93 cobra booster, 98 master, gutted 98 prop valve, wildwood prop valve for bias. The brakes on my car would not lock up. The first thing I noticed was the front cobra pads had worn a ridge in the caliper bracket causing the inside pad to lock up. After that my cam was only pulling 8lbs of vacuum at idle. Not enough for the booster after a couple braking events. Ended up using a Chevy cruze vacuum pump, relay, vacuum switch, and check valves. ( pulled from local JY- pretty much self contained ). My car is turbocharged and stops very well now. Pump keeps the booster vacuumed down and cuts on whenever booster vacuum drops below 12in.hg. with my hybrid electric power steering and the vacuum pump moving the car around without starting it is a breeze.

 

[PonyGTrider]

I have 04 cobra rear, 04 cobra front brakes, 93 cobra booster, 98 master, gutted 98 prop valve, wildwood prop valve for bias. The brakes on my car would not lock up. The first thing I noticed was the front cobra pads had worn a ridge in the caliper bracket causing the inside pad to lock up. After that my cam was only pulling 8lbs of vacuum at idle. Not enough for the booster after a couple braking events. Ended up using a Chevy cruze vacuum pump, relay, vacuum switch, and check valves. ( pulled from local JY- pretty much self contained ). My car is turbocharged and stops very well now. Pump keeps the booster vacuumed down and cuts on whenever booster vacuum drops below 12in.hg. with my hybrid electric power steering and the vacuum pump moving the car around without starting it is a breeze.

Well thanks for sharing your story, man once we start modifying things around reach some ugly situations but that’s they way it goes sometimes. Good thing you’re finding solutions to those headaches. My driving is just streets and some long trips, and just like I said I guess I was expecting more from this upgrade. Good luck

 

[Mustang5L5]

This question comes up quite frequently actually.

The 94-04 Cobra PBR was initially designed back in the 80's to be used on a 12" rotor. GM then used it on a 13" rotor along with Ford. SO the lack of full swept contact area is an artifact of the design being that it was originally intended for a smaller brake package.

PBR later updated these calipers to the style found on the C5 and C6 corvette. They used the same pistons, but allowed for a pad with a MUCH larger contact patch area for the 13.4" rotor. I actually have a set of these on my car because the lack of pad area on the cobra calipers drove me nuts.

Brakes - Rotor size question

Mounted up calipers and rotors today, looking at the coverage of the pad on the rotor face it looks like width of the face is made for a bigger/wider pad or setup? Everything mounted up correctly, but just concerned about the amount of rotor not being used /touched. Triple checking part #s...

www.stangnet.com

I have a ’95 mustang V6/GT master cylinder. Pedal feel is good but seems I don't have enough clamping force and it stops but I could use a better brake power, or if you have manual brakes again what MC?

That's the wrong MC for that setup. The bore is too large meaning you need to put more leg effort into it. Swap to a 1993 Cobra MC with a 1" bore and I guarantee you the braking performance will improve significantly


I ran that exact setup for years in a few different forms. I was never a fan of Hawk Pads, so i ran Motorcraft pads (and later the stock AC delco pads in the corvette calipers) and had very impressive braking performance for the street. I barely have to use any pedal to get the car to stop.

 

[PonyGTrider]

This question comes up quite frequently actually.

The 94-04 Cobra PBR was initially designed back in the 80's to be used on a 12" rotor. GM then used it on a 13" rotor along with Ford. SO the lack of full swept contact area is an artifact of the design being that it was originally intended for a smaller brake package.

PBR later updated these calipers to the style found on the C5 and C6 corvette. They used the same pistons, but allowed for a pad with a MUCH larger contact patch area for the 13.4" rotor. I actually have a set of these on my car because the lack of pad area on the cobra calipers drove me nuts.

Brakes - Rotor size question

Mounted up calipers and rotors today, looking at the coverage of the pad on the rotor face it looks like width of the face is made for a bigger/wider pad or setup? Everything mounted up correctly, but just concerned about the amount of rotor not being used /touched. Triple checking part #s...

www.stangnet.com

That's the wrong MC for that setup. The bore is too large meaning you need to put more leg effort into it. Swap to a 1993 Cobra MC with a 1" bore and I guarantee you the braking performance will improve significantly


I ran that exact setup for years in a few different forms. I was never a fan of Hawk Pads, so i ran Motorcraft pads (and later the stock AC delco pads in the corvette calipers) and had very impressive braking performance for the street. I barely have to use any pedal to get the car to stop.

Well that's a nice information you shared right there. I will look into the 1 inch bore MC, you might be right about that. My set up was put together following an article but could be the wrong combination. So I'll find out if a new MC makes a good positive difference.

Thank again a bunch for sharing

 

[PonyGTrider]

This question comes up quite frequently actually.

The 94-04 Cobra PBR was initially designed back in the 80's to be used on a 12" rotor. GM then used it on a 13" rotor along with Ford. SO the lack of full swept contact area is an artifact of the design being that it was originally intended for a smaller brake package.

PBR later updated these calipers to the style found on the C5 and C6 corvette. They used the same pistons, but allowed for a pad with a MUCH larger contact patch area for the 13.4" rotor. I actually have a set of these on my car because the lack of pad area on the cobra calipers drove me nuts.

Brakes - Rotor size question

Mounted up calipers and rotors today, looking at the coverage of the pad on the rotor face it looks like width of the face is made for a bigger/wider pad or setup? Everything mounted up correctly, but just concerned about the amount of rotor not being used /touched. Triple checking part #s...

www.stangnet.com

That's the wrong MC for that setup. The bore is too large meaning you need to put more leg effort into it. Swap to a 1993 Cobra MC with a 1" bore and I guarantee you the braking performance will improve significantly


I ran that exact setup for years in a few different forms. I was never a fan of Hawk Pads, so i ran Motorcraft pads (and later the stock AC delco pads in the corvette calipers) and had very impressive braking performance for the street. I barely have to use any pedal to get the car to stop.

I was reading your threads on this subject and have to throw this question: Is it possible or have you ever tried to fit the front Cobra or Bullitt calipers with the C5, C6, or GTO brake pads for more braking surface area? I would be interesting to know about that possibility. Wouldn't that be great???

 

[Mustang5L5]

The pads don’t interchange. The design of the calipers is different. The cobra calipers are a pad guided design where the pad is wedged into the abutment bracket and the caliper clips to the pads. The corvette style are pin guided calipers where the pads are also wedged onto the pad bracket but the caliper rides on two libricated pins and doesn’t physically connect to the pads. The pad area is dramatically different too.

unfortunately you are limited to the cobra style pad here

 

[PonyGTrider]

The pads don’t interchange. The design of the calipers is different. The cobra calipers are a pad guided design where the pad is wedged into the abutment bracket and the caliper clips to the pads. The corvette style are pin guided calipers where the pads are also wedged onto the pad bracket but the caliper rides on two libricated pins and doesn’t physically connect to the pads. The pad area is dramatically different too.

unfortunately you are limited to the cobra style pad here

Oh, well at least I tried it
Thank you for answering my question.