Front wheels spacing with fenders is off

spederman · Feb 19, 2011

I'm confused on what is going on with my car. My front wheels spacing from the fender is off. The driver side wheel/tire sticks out flush to the fender edge. But the passenger side wheel/tire is about 1 inch inside the fender well. What in the world could be causing the spacing to be off.

Car has never been wrecked. The tubular K member/A arms were sqaured and the measurements are spot on. Measurements of the K member/A arms are all correct on both sides. What else can i check or adjust to get the spacing equal?

trombonedemon · Feb 19, 2011

spederman said:
I'm confused on what is going on with my car. My front wheels spacing from the fender is off. The driver side wheel/tire sticks out flush to the fender edge. But the passenger side wheel/tire is about 1 inch inside the fender well. What in the world could be causing the spacing to be off.

Car has never been wrecked. The tubular K member/A arms were sqaured and the measurements are spot on. Measurements of the K member/A arms are all correct on both sides. What else can i check or adjust to get the spacing equal?

My guess would be the bushings for the power steering rack are completely shot, would start there. A bent control arm could cause something like that. You need to check underneath closely and safely to rule out some things.

spederman · Feb 19, 2011

trombonedemon said:
My guess would be the bushings for the power steering rack are completely shot, would start there. A bent control arm could cause something like that. You need to check underneath closely and safely to rule out some things.

never thought of the rack bushings. They looked fine when i was putting in the K member, but they are the stock rubber from 2002. Maybe they are just not doing it anymore, i'll replace them with some poly bushings and see if that helps. Honestly,everything else looks perfect and measures in spec.

Is there anything that can be adjusted on the spindles that could be off?

trinity_gt · Feb 19, 2011

Have you owned the car since new? If not, are you sure it has never been wrecked?

How did you verify the dimensions on the A-arms and K-member. You have a tubular K-member: What make and who put it in?

Rack bushings might cause sloppiness in the steering and odd toe-angles accelerating tire wear but shouldn't give the appearance that one side is sticking out an inch further than the other.

Get thee to an alignment rack and have the front inspected. I'd be curious to know what the camber is on each side.

spederman · Feb 20, 2011

trinity_gt said:
Have you owned the car since new? If not, are you sure it has never been wrecked?

How did you verify the dimensions on the A-arms and K-member. You have a tubular K-member: What make and who put it in?

Rack bushings might cause sloppiness in the steering and odd toe-angles accelerating tire wear but shouldn't give the appearance that one side is sticking out an inch further than the other.

Get thee to an alignment rack and have the front inspected. I'd be curious to know what the camber is on each side.

Ive had the car since new. I used the Maximum motorsports squaring K member instructions and it came out to perfect specs. I also had a pro track racing shop install a PHB and torque arm, while it was there, i had them check the sqaureness of the K member and they verified the same measurements i did.

I did the install of the K member and its a PA racing K member/A arms. I also had an alignment done last week which went perfect and the specs on the camber are -.06 on each side.

I'm not sure what else to check, so confused.

johnnyt03gt · Feb 21, 2011

somehow. you have too much. negative camber on that one side.
check ur, CC.plates blots are 'tight'

mransr · Feb 21, 2011

do you have like a 2 or 3 foot level you can hold against the wheels and see if the wheel are at about the same vertical angle?

That would give you a quick idea if your camber was wildly off

...and I agree that the rack bushing wouldn't effect the top of the tire being in or out too far.

spederman · Feb 21, 2011

I just took it into a different NTB for a recheck on the alignment. (have a 3 yr/unlimited alignment plan). and the 2nd place also came up with the same alignment specs (Camber -.06/Caster 0) on both sides. WTF, i'm stumped , it drives fine, but its just sooooo annoying to know that its off and not being able to figure out why.

trombonedemon · Feb 21, 2011

When did you first notice the sides being off and is your car lowered? Somehow your k-member has moved or you frame is bent, or somehow the unibody front has twisted. You really need get the car in the air to see actually what would cause the car's front to shift like that.
I've heard about bent frames within spec alighnments that drive fine but looks funky.
These cars have tremendous unibody flex and this paticular desighn is weak w/out subframes.

twogts4us · Feb 22, 2011

Optical Illusion. I've noticed this on all 3 SN-95s I've owned.

joshjwc9 · Feb 22, 2011

Do you have offset rack bushings? How old are the inner/outer tie rods? I'd have to agree with twogts4us, because I notice this on many SN95's too.

twogts4us · Feb 22, 2011

Let's also clarify - I believe what you are talking about is toe adjustment, correct? As you look at one (front) tire, it looks like it is aiming straight forward, but then if you look at the other tire, it looks like it is turned slightly outward. Is this what you are seeing? As crazy as it seems, this is just an illusion. You've verified the measurements, correct? That proves it. If you have not, you can simply measure toe as shown here...you can sub the gizmo they used with just a large level, a yardstick, or a very straight 2X4. Make sure they are flat against the tire/rim and then compare your measurements.

spederman · Feb 22, 2011

to make it easier to realize what i'm talking about, here are some pics of just rough estimate measurements of both front wheels. Not the most accurate measurement but you get an idea of how each side is 1/2" off from each other.

I'm wondering if its always been like this and its just really noticable now because i just ended up taking out the iso's from the springs. Since then, the wheels are now tucked up underneath the fender, where before, i had a two finger gap.

LEFT SIDE:

View attachment 195826

View attachment 195827

RIGHT SIDE:

View attachment 195828

View attachment 195829

twogts4us · Feb 22, 2011

I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are seeing, but I think you should measure against the wheel, rather than the rubber - and be sure you are on the center of the rim. And, in the end, if there is nothing wrong, there is nothing to fix. Don't go chasing a problem that doesn't exist...I'm just sayin'

spederman · Feb 22, 2011

twogts4us said:
I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are seeing, but I think you should measure against the wheel, rather than the rubber - and be sure you are on the center of the rim. And, in the end, if there is nothing wrong, there is nothing to fix. Don't go chasing a problem that doesn't exist...I'm just sayin'

LOL, i hear ya, i think i'm just going crazy with OCD and worrying about a 1/2" that may or may not be there. It drives fine and the wheel alignment is fine, so i might have to just try and not to think about it. I bet nobody else on the planet would ever even notice this issue , besides me

trinity_gt · Feb 22, 2011

All modern cars have specific points from which measurements can be made to determine the dimensional correctness of the frame (squareness etc). Here's a sample from an old Mustang:

Sorry...I have no idea why it's so huge!

A good bodyshop with a frame rack should have access to the correct dimensions and points for the Fox-4 chassis. If it's really bugging you (I get the OCD thing... ) you might consider putting the car on a rack and having it measured.

I still believe the "problem" -- if you will -- is in the K-member and/or lower control arms. Then again, this is a Mustang...it's possible it's simply that the body panels aren't lying symmetrically left-to-right over the chassis causing the appearance you're seeing.

If the car drives okay I wouldn't worry too much about it. You might get a single 20mm spacer on the "innie" to correct it visually

(I'm just kidding about the spacer...)

mransr · Feb 23, 2011

trinity_gt said:
Then again, this is a Mustang...it's possible it's simply that the body panels aren't lying symmetrically left-to-right over the chassis causing the appearance you're seeing.

If the car drives okay I wouldn't worry too much about it. You might get a single 20mm spacer on the "innie" to correct it visually

(I'm just kidding about the spacer...)

I think you hit the nail on the head there...probably just production tolerance in the fit of the sheet metal :-/ ...and it's just much more apparent now that the tires are so near the fender lips

spederman · Feb 23, 2011

Ive got new springs coming tomorrow (H&R race) which i dont think drop the car this much, so i'll see if that makes it look like it used to otherwise i might pop back in the top isolators too.

twogts4us · Feb 24, 2011

mransr said:
production tolerance in the fit of the sheet metal

Yeah, you should see my trunk lid, pass side. I'd swear it's nearly a quarter inch higher than the side fender. This ain't no Rolls, Ferrari, or Lambo.

Speaking of Ford (where Quality is Job 1, remember that one?) - I remember when I bought my first new car - a 92 Escort GT (I really wanted a 5.0 Mustang, but couldn't afford those payments on my tiny paychecks back then...). Anyway, on the windshield pillar there was a square about the size of a quarter that was not painted, only primed. Apparently, something had covered this spot when they painted it. I was amazed that NOBODY noticed it. Not the factory QA people (or maybe they don't have any?), not the dealer prep people (lord knows they want to charge you enough for 'dealer prep')...nobody...until me.

RedDaemon · Feb 24, 2011

spederman said:
to make it easier to realize what i'm talking about, here are some pics of just rough estimate measurements of both front wheels. Not the most accurate measurement but you get an idea of how each side is 1/2" off from each other.

I'm wondering if its always been like this and its just really noticable now because i just ended up taking out the iso's from the springs. Since then, the wheels are now tucked up underneath the fender, where before, i had a two finger gap.

LEFT SIDE:

RIGHT SIDE:

i need to see a full pic of your s281 with those white saleens

Front wheels spacing with fenders is off

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