Future Upgrades... H/C/I.. Supercharger..??

[savegoodautonfg]

Hey all,

I was thinking tonight I really want to start upgrading my car. First thing I will do very soon is get 3.73's which i heard is a good idea.

Next , I want to prepare my car for a supercharger *I also hear this is a good idea*,

So i was thinking of doing a H/C/I swap.

What do you guys think H/C/I wise, what should I get?
I don't want to spend an arm and a leg, If you get what I'm saying.

I'm going to attempt all the labor with my friend but I have a mechanic to do some of the work if I need the help during the install.

THanks in advance,

-Nick

 

[txstang84]

yaaaa! supercharger!

Heads: TFS TW or Eddy rpm's, or something of the like...
Intake: TFS track heat
Cam: TFS stage 1, Lunati 51014 (I'm biased)
Supercharger: wooohooo S-trim!

Just kidding...get what you want, but do your research first, with a blower, you can keep your h/c/i combo fairly mild and still make enough power under boost to go for the ventilated block option...also known as two 4 cylinders...

I guess I should've asked first: Just what all are you expecting? And, have you done any chassis or suspension mods...might want to do them first if not.

 

[txstang84]

I'm running what's in my sig and under power, 1st, 2nd, and some of 3rd gear are absolutely useless, so I need to get better tires...you don't have to go wild to make really good power.

You could probably run Thumper heads, and a boost friendly cam with a Cobra intake, and have fun until funds permit for the whinemaker (aka blower)

BOOST IS FUN!!!

 

[tording]

My first H/C/I setup I used was the complete TFS setup. It comes with the TW heads, TFS stage 1 cam, TFS lower and upper intake, trickflow 1.6 roller rockers, new timing gear set and chain, new pushrods, complete gasket set, and TFS valve covers. The setup through summint is 2345.00 for the street heat and 2395.00 for the track heat setup. The track heat setup heads do not have the holes on the back of the heads for the emission tube so they are non emission compliant. I loved this setup as it came with everything I needed and just bolted it up over a weekend and box stock this setup on a 120k mile 302 made 306 rwhp and 330 rwtq. This was of course with other bolts ons like Long tubes, underdrive pulles, offroad h pipe etc etc etc. I would totally recommend this setup to somebody who just wants to buy the kit and bolt it on. Very simple and easy.

With this setup even bolt on LS1's didnt stand a chance because of the light weight of the mustang.

I do also agree with txstang as boost is very fun and addictive. I ran a custom twin turbo setup on those same TFS heads with a 331 stroker motor. Boost is amazing and it is so addicting to just be able to turn a knob to up the boost or change a pulley and make even more power. Good Luck with whatever you decide.

 

[txstang84]

...a 120k mile 302 made 306 rwhp and 330 rwtq. This was of course with other bolts ons like Long tubes, underdrive pulles, offroad h pipe etc etc etc. I would totally recommend this setup to somebody who just wants to buy the kit and bolt it on. Very simple and easy...QUOTE]

306rwhp on a well worn 302, well done! Here's the links for them through Summit:

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...4294838998+400098+4294908331+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...4294838998+400098+4294908331+115&autoview=sku

 

[tording]

whoops. Guess I was a little off on the price. Pretty close though. As others will tell you the AFR heads are nice too but with the TFS you get everything you need to do the swap which is a + in my book.

 

[txstang84]

definitely is...the AFR's are nice, but they are also more expensive than the Trick Flows...

 

[Kevins89notch5.0]

My first H/C/I setup I used was the complete TFS setup. It comes with the TW heads, TFS stage 1 cam, TFS lower and upper intake, trickflow 1.6 roller rockers, new timing gear set and chain, new pushrods, complete gasket set, and TFS valve covers. The setup through summint is 2345.00 for the street heat and 2395.00 for the track heat setup. The track heat setup heads do not have the holes on the back of the heads for the emission tube so they are non emission compliant. I loved this setup as it came with everything I needed and just bolted it up over a weekend and box stock this setup on a 120k mile 302 made 306 rwhp and 330 rwtq. This was of course with other bolts ons like Long tubes, underdrive pulles, offroad h pipe etc etc etc.

Thanks for making my point. A used S-Trim for $1700, $300 for used injectors and mass air meter, $100 for a 255 in tank pump, and any 5.0 can put down 330-370rwhp, stock pullied. Oh, and I still got 25mpg on the interstate. Lets see, cheaper, and faster!

Blower > H/C/I

 

[tording]

It all depends on how you want to make power. If you want to go the blower route then as kevins89notch said a blower will make you a lot of power in stock trim. Some people like me would rather make decent numbers N/A as some find it more respectable but its all personal preference. Or you can do the H/C/I first and then do the blower and easily make 450 rwhp. With the stock engine and a blower once you hit that 330-370 mark mentioned above your pretty much done making power unless your going to boost the **** out of the motor. With H/C/I you can make more power on less boost bascially. Good Luck with whatever you decide.

 

[savegoodautonfg]

Or you can do the H/C/I first and then do the blower and easily make 450 rwhp. With the stock engine and a blower once you hit that 330-370 mark mentioned above your pretty much done making power unless your going to boost the **** out of the motor.

What do you mean by the part about done making power unless you boost the **** out of the motor.

 

[savegoodautonfg]

Also i've heard tons of things that, supercharger on a stock motor is'nt too great.

 

[savegoodautonfg]

I'm looking to get about 350-400hp eventually.. But question is i only have a few thousand miles on my new 302 5.0 long block. Everything is in great shape on the engine. Runs really well.

its just stock other then the mods below.

You think a supercharger will be bad for a stock block or what>?

I know supercharger will make more power correct?

Also, what if i did'nt do the cam but did the intake and heads i know how to replace them but not the cams.

 

[hdawg06]

You think a supercharger will be bad for a stock block or what>?

I would say, unless you are planning to run 450+whp, then you will be good with the stock block. The stock block usually cracks around 500whp eventually, but with just a S-Trim you are good. As for a h/c/i on top of that, if you go too extreme, you may have problems, but with just a mild setup, you would probably see 420-440whp out of the car.

 

[DMAN302]

Thanks for making my point. A used S-Trim for $1700, $300 for used injectors and mass air meter, $100 for a 255 in tank pump, and any 5.0 can put down 330-370rwhp, stock pullied. Oh, and I still got 25mpg on the interstate. Lets see, cheaper, and faster!

Blower > H/C/I

Ah but you just don't get the 'feeling' you get in a H/C/I car when you're boosted...and the exhaust tone...and the snap of the cam that gets everyones attention when you start it...and the crazy snarl when you dip into the throttle. You can't compare the two, the HCI car is more fun IMO in overal experience...now a boosted HCI car, now that's a completely different story, that's the best of both worlds and then some.

 

[savegoodautonfg]

You think a supercharger will be bad for a stock block or what>?

Whats all this stuff I'm hearing about you shouldnt add supercharger to a stock block cuz blow head gaskets n ****?

I know supercharger will make more power correct?

Also, what if i did'nt do the cam but did the intake and heads i know how to replace them but not the cams.


To add when people say the supercharger used the stock pulley, never changed the pulley.. what does this mean.. please explain

Please answer as much as possible. thank you very much

-Nick

 

[blackened88lx]

This blower vs. h/c/i topic is beat to death, so I'm not gonna read all the posts, just put in my .02. I vote h/c/i. The power will be comparable. It is very hard to say what will make more power without knowing the exact blower and boost levels, and what the h/c/i combo is. The h/c/i will freshen up the whole top-end of your motor, which is a very good thing. If you run aluminum heads that will take 50lbs off the front of your car instead of adding it when you install a supercharger. It is a lot easier to work on a car without the clutter of a supercharger and the plumbing in your engine bay. I also believe a n/a car is a lot more reliable than a boosted car. h/c/i will be cheaper unless you're going with a used blower.

To answer your other questions. Some people have good luck with head gaskets, and some people have bad luck. It's not a definite that you will blow head gaskets, but installing a supercharger will definitely increase the chances. Blowing head gaskets has nothing to do with the stock block though, it is the crappy head gaskets.

It's not really a good idea to do the heads and intake but not the cam. If you have the money to spend, I would recommend going with a custom cam to match your combo perfectly. This will squeeze as much power as possible out of your engine. As far as installing it, it is very simple, and I'm sure you can find something on here, or elsewhere on the internet with exact instructions on how to do it. If you don't feel comfortable, find someone to help.

When people say the supercharger has always had the stock pulley, this means that they never changed the blower pulley. The pulley on the supercharger can be changed to a variety of smaller sizes, which spins the blower faster and increases the boost, but can put more wear on the supercharger. Stock pulleys usually run between 5-8psi depending on the supercharger.

 

[bentley429]

When people say the supercharger has always had the stock pulley, this means that they never changed the blower pulley. The pulley on the supercharger can be changed to a variety of smaller sizes, which spins the blower faster and increases the boost, but can put more wear on the supercharger. Stock pulleys usually run between 5-8psi depending on the supercharger.

That doesnt mean they didnt run a 8" crank pulley.

 

[blackened88lx]

That doesnt mean they didnt run a 8" crank pulley.

Or just put the stock pulley back on the blower before they sold it and claimed it always had the stock one.

 

[bentley429]

Or just put the stock pulley back on the blower before they sold it and claimed it always had the stock one.

hehehe

 

[txstang84]

Ok, as far as running a blower on a stock long block...provided that everything is put together well, and you're sensible with the boost (like less than 14psi), then you should be fine...you just won't yield the same power numbers as someone who bolts on a blower that already has h/c/i mods-they make the efficiency of the engine better-add a supercharger to that, and BAM! you make good power.

But, you can still slap on a supercharger and have plenty of fun...

You mentioned that you have a new long block-do you have forged pistons in it? If you're running cast or hyper, you should limit the boost to about 8psi or so to keep the pistons from suffering catostrophic failure (they burn up due to heat and pressure)