getting a new radiator. Which would you get?

[jerry S]

I have a 24x19 inch Griffin universal radiator with 1 inch tubes. It works great at highway speeds but runs hot when I am driving at low speeds. Also, the top right inlet interferes with the location of my alternator after my March Serp. Conversion and the bottom left outlet meant that I had to relocate my timing pointer to where I can no longer see it.

I have a transcooler mounted in front of the radiator. I have decided to get a an identically sized radiator but with larger tubes (1.25 inch, rated up to 600 hp. Or for an extra $150, I can get 1.5 inch tubes that will drop my temps even lower). I will also change the inlet and outlet locations to fix the interference with the alternator and also so I can move my timing pointer to where I can actually see it.

Now here is the thing. I can opt for a transcooler built into the radiator or keep the externally mounted unit in front of the radiator. The common consensus is that the trans cooler does indeed block "some" air flow to the radiator. My primary goal is to protect the several thousands of dollars I have invested in the engine, a .040 over, 10.5 CR 351W putting out 425-450 hp. My secondary goal is to keep the tranny cool enough.

I have just installed a B&M Racing aluminum transmission pan that holds an extra 2 quarts of transmisison fluid. My torque converter stalls between 2800 and 3000.

Which way is the best way to go; new radiator with trans cooler built in or new radiator and reuse the trans cooler I already have? Is there an advantage/disadvantage between one or the other?

 

[Sicarius428]

Move the transcooler elseware. It will block or restrict your fan from pulling enough air to keep your water cool. You either need a more powerfull fan or to allow more air to go through the radiator. A larger radiator will not keep you from overheating around town if your fan isn't pulling enough air.
Kevin

 

[jerry S]

Move the transcooler elseware. It will block or restrict your fan from pulling enough air to keep your water cool. You either need a more powerfull fan or to allow more air to go through the radiator. A larger radiator will not keep you from overheating around town if your fan isn't pulling enough air.
Kevin

I am limited with my fan to a low profile. There is less than 3 inches between the radiator and the water pump. I have a flex-a-lite 12 inch puller rated at 1250 cfm in there right now. Or I can put 2 flex-a-lite 10 inch fans in there at 785 cfm each and up the air flow to 1570 cfm. Since I have to replace the radiator anyway, I might as well get the one with the bigger tubes. So to answer my question, would you get the radiator with the trans cooler built into the radiator or not?

 

[red65]

I just installed a Griffin aluminum rad in my '65 with the built-in trans cooler (although I have a manual and don't actually use it, but it's what NPD had in stock). This is their two-row rad with 1.25" tubes. My car has a Novi 1000 supercharger, so there was even less room between the rad and s/c pulley. I wound up installing a Derale 16" pusher fan in front of the rad, which required some mods (nothing too extravagant) to the support brace and hood latch to make it fit. Now that it's all together, however, the car runs right at the thermostat rating, no matter how I'm driving. I can idle all day and the fan cycles on and off and keeps it within about 5-deg of the thermostat temp. On the highway, I think the thermostat actually closes somewhat from time to time to keep the temperature high enough (I'm guessing at this from staring at the temperature gauge while I should be watching the road). The pusher fan is good for something like 2200cfm, and doesn't come on for more than about 60-seconds at a time to cool the radiator down to its set point. I'm mentioning this because it sounds like you've got a similar space constraint, and you might not have thought of a pusher fan. Just a suggestion.

 

[grego37]

I agree, your problem is your airflow below 30mph . You can put a radiator twice that size thinking you'll solve the problem, but you'd have the same exact problem. You need more from your fan.

If you're willing to do a little cutting, you can trim allot of the bulge on the inside of the radiator core support (around the square opening) to get your radiator to sit closer to your bumper. Maybe freeing up enough room to run a good electric puller. or get your flex fan working properly (with a shroud)

Or run a good pusher fan up front.

But you need more airflow at low speeds.

I hate to open a can of worms here, but did you get one of those underdrive pulley systems ?

 

[jerry S]

I agree, your problem is your airflow below 30mph . You can put a radiator twice that size thinking you'll solve the problem, but you'd have the same exact problem. You need more from your fan.

But you need more airflow at low speeds.

I hate to open a can of worms here, but did you get one of those underdrive pulley systems ?

Red65 has suggested a pusher fan but all the radiator mfgs suggest against it. I do have a lot of space in front. Maybe both a pusher and a puller?

I don't have an underdrive system. Rather, I have a Meziere electric pumping 35 gpm

 

[grego37]

Jerry , that seems like the cheapest and easiest option, adding a pusher to your set up . It just might work.

I'd go with the radiator that doesnt have trans. cooling option.

I'd run a seperate trans cooler and mount it somewhere else besides attached to the front of the radiator. do you have a lower grill cavity.
good luck

 

[jerry S]

Jerry , that seems like the cheapest and easiest option, adding a pusher to your set up . It just might work.

I'd go with the radiator that doesnt have trans. cooling option.

I'd run a seperate trans cooler and mount it somewhere else besides attached to the front of the radiator. do you have a lower grill cavity.
good luck

I have lots of space between the grill and the radiator. I could relocate the transcooler but I am having a hard time figuring how I would mount it.

After doing a lot of looking, I found some 16 inch fans that pull 1610 cfm and which fit the confines of my engine. This would represent a 29% increase in air flow through the radiator. Griffin can make an alum fan shroud for the new radiator so I would pull through all the tubes and not just some. I think that with the combination of the bigger tubes and almost 30% more air flow, I should be able to solve my low speed cooling problems. Remember that these 1 inch tubes are rated for a 400 hp engine and I am at least 25 to as much as 50 hp over thatwith a .040 over and 10.5 CR engine so I have exceeded spec with my current radiator as it is.

If I can figure how to get move the radiator forward another 1.5 inches, I can add a high flow 16 inch fan pulling 2360 cfm. That would do the trick without any doubts

 

[grego37]

This may sound wierd, but if you cant move the radiator forward, how about moving the engine back. I've seen an advertisment for some new billet aluminum motor mounts that offer adjustment left to right and front to back, I think in Mustang and fords magazine.

 

[jerry S]

This may sound wierd, but if you cant move the radiator forward, how about moving the engine back. I've seen an advertisment for some new billet aluminum motor mounts that offer adjustment left to right and front to back, I think in Mustang and fords magazine.

I found an even smaller profile puller fan rated at 2500 cfm and which is only 3.19 inches deep. I have a fan in there now with a depth of 2.625 inches with about .5 inch or so between the fan and the water pump. The new fan would give me only.065 inch clearance. I am sure I can figure out how to move the radiator forward at least .5 of an inch and get to where I need to be. That way, I don't have to ditch the new TCP motor mounts.

 

[69Rcode_Mach1]

Jerry do not get a new rad that is not your problem. Like others have said get a new fan. I have a 3 row factory radiator on mine with a puller electric fan, and my car barely creeps to 210 degrees with the fan off. I haven't gotten it out there much yet though so not too much city driving yet. Still trying to iron out some bugs. How are you having clearance issues with your fan and water pump, 3 inches is a lot of clearance, find yourself a nice hefty fan that can move some air.

 

[jerry S]

Jerry do not get a new rad that is not your problem. Like others have said get a new fan. I have a 3 row factory radiator on mine with a puller electric fan, and my car barely creeps to 210 degrees with the fan off. I haven't gotten it out there much yet though so not too much city driving yet. Still trying to iron out some bugs. How are you having clearance issues with your fan and water pump, 3 inches is a lot of clearance, find yourself a nice hefty fan that can move some air.

You are missing one of my reasons for wanting a new radiator. The guy who built the engine installed a radiator with an inlet at top right and an outlet at bottom left. Once I did my March serp. conversion, the alt got moved up and now the alternator fan is just a hair's breath away from the radiator inlet hose. Second, I had to move the timing pointer from the driver's side of the engine to the passenger's side and you simply cannot see it. I want a radiator with the inlet and outlet opposite of what I have now. While I am at it, I will opt for larger tubes and the larger fan. The 2500 cfm fan would represent a 100% increase in airflow through the radiator from what I currently have.

 

[66HertzClone]

I found a shop local to me that makes radiators. I brought him my old radiator, told him what I wanted different and he made it up. I wanted to move the radiator as far forward as possible, he made the rad up and the mounting brackets, but did not attach them. I brought them back home and fitting it in place. I marked the sides of the rad with a marker where the brackets needed to be. He attached the brackets for me and also some tabs for mounting the fan shroud. There is a photo of it installed in the car on my CarDomain page.

I now have 4 1/8 " between the core and the pilot on the water pump, plenty of room for an electric fan. By the way, I found Spal fans to be thinner than most of the others available.

 

[jerry S]

I found a shop local to me that makes radiators. I brought him my old radiator, told him what I wanted different and he made it up. I wanted to move the radiator as far forward as possible, he made the rad up and the mounting brackets, but did not attach them. I brought them back home and fitting it in place. I marked the sides of the rad with a marker where the brackets needed to be. He attached the brackets for me and also some tabs for mounting the fan shroud. There is a photo of it installed in the car on my CarDomain page.

I now have 4 1/8 " between the core and the pilot on the water pump, plenty of room for an electric fan. By the way, I found Spal fans to be thinner than most of the others available.

I have no shortage of Dutch pig farmers who are more than capable of botching such a job. I do have a shortage of qualified dutch shops who can such a job as you have set forth.

The Spal fan pulls 2360 cfm with 3.39 inches of depth while the flex-a-lite pulls 2500 cfm of air with 3.19 inches of depth.

 

[Credzba]

My radiator problems / solution

I have a 66 coupe that I put a 347 stroker motor in.
Its not great compared to lots of these guys, but it dynod at 400 torque and 400 hp at 5500 rpm.
Cost $5000.

Like you I was worried that my operating temp would climb to 225 when slow and idling.

I tried every trick you can imagine (I'll pm them if you want but wont bore everyone), nothing solved the problem.

Next to last thing I did was buy the 1.25 600 hp 19" aluminum radiator from Griffen because they guaranteed it would cool the engine or they would give me my money back.

I called 4 months later, after again trying everything known to man, and asked for my money back. I explained the problem to them and the gave me an RMA.

1 month later a radiator box appeared at my door.
It was the radiator for a 390 engine for the same year (I had told the guy I didnt mind cutting the oppenning wider).


So, last thing I did (that fixed the problem) I purchased 68 radiator mounts (rubber pads etc.) cut my radiator opening wider to accomodate the 23" radiator. Purchased the fan shroud that fit the 390 radiator.

Total cost with radiator, mounts, shroud etc. was almost $1000, but my engine runs solid at 190 degrees (thermostat temp).
Before I put the thermostat back in (I had taken it out to try to get the engine cool before) I could drive the car 20 miles to work on the highway, get out, and put my hands on top of the radiator .. it didnt even warm up.

So, it was expensive, but instead of worrying about overheating my new engine, I enjoy driving it now. Money well spent.

 

[jerry S]

the radiator for a 390 engine for the same year


.

is this an alum radiator or a copper core OEM replacement?

 

[1320stang]

Jerry, I'm not sure what you need, but if you feel you need a new radiator, I know of a guy in Texas that can hook you up with an aluminum Northern that should work, but I'm not sure if it's a drop in or not. I know the price would be right. With your '69, a big block radiator is a bolt in other than the inlet and outlet locations. It would still seem that finding a compotent aluminum welder should solve your problems cheaper than buying a new rad from america.

 

[jerry S]

Jerry, I'm not sure what you need, but if you feel you need a new radiator, I know of a guy in Texas that can hook you up with an aluminum Northern that should work, but I'm not sure if it's a drop in or not. I know the price would be right. With your '69, a big block radiator is a bolt in other than the inlet and outlet locations. It would still seem that finding a compotent aluminum welder should solve your problems cheaper than buying a new rad from america.

Hi Larry. Thanks for the reply. As things are, I have a special service whereby I only pay local US shipping for stuff sent to me here in Euroland. I have a mailing service whereby I ship to a local US address and my service picks it up and covers the US to Amsterdam part. I pay no overseas shipping, taxes, or duty. I think I will first install the new autometer gauges and see what my temps really are and then determine my needs radiator wise. It may be that I solve my problems by doubling my fan's capacity from 1250 to 2500 cfm.