Getting tired of this, please help: Granada Swap

monk302

Founding Member
Apr 18, 2001
742
2
16
New Jersey
This is what I have put in:

Rebuilt Calipers
New slotted rotors (Mustang Depot)
Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve
NEW Maverick MC (1974 part #36440 from NAPA)
New lines to rear, factory flared
New line to driver front (factory flared)
The distribution block on the 8" has been replaced
Speed Bleeders

The lines to the front are split with a brass adapter, I DO NOT have a distribution block.

The proportioning valve from Wilwood is adjustable and and is inline to the rear brakes.

Bleeding
1)The master cylinder has been bench bled.
2)All four wheels have been bled normally and have speed bleeders.
3)I have used a pressure bleeder on all four wheels

Verdict
With the first push of the pedal I will have no pressure, it will hit the floor. Upon subsequent pumps it will begin to have better pressure, but it will not get to a normal height unless pump it really fast. If I don't pump it for a period of ten seconds on the next pump ther will be no pedal feel, it will go to the floor.

I am really getting pissed at this, I want the car on the road but cannot get anything from it. This really sucks. Can someone help?
 
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hate to say it but sounds alot like a master cylinder with an internal leak... and that seems illogical since It's new...but mine did the same thing after my swap.. new MC fixed the problem and the old MC was confirmed dead on bench after a few hours of tinkering w/ it and an old rearend and as far as new MCs.... it should work, but I helped a friend w/ a lift kit and brake upgrade on a jeep that came w/ new MC and sure enough the NEW MC was dead... would deffinatly look for other problems first but just posted to let everyone know that it can happen and could be a possibility for your situation
 
5.0n66 said:
hate to say it but sounds alot like a master cylinder with an internal leak... and that seems illogical since I'm assuming it worked with the old setup...but mine did the same thing after my swap.. new MC fixed the problem and the old MC was confirmed dead on bench after a few hours of tinkering w/ it and an old rearend

Actually the MC is brand new. I was messing around with a rebuilt one and decided to splurge and purchase a new one so I don't think that could really be the problem.

Thanks for the reply
 
I just finished a Granada swap on my '70. I put in three master cylinders. The first two were no good, but I didn't realize it. I thought I needed to bleed more or I was doing something else wrong.

I put the third one in and everything worked right away.

I think it's your master cylinder as well.

If you have checked the brake lines and you have no leaks, it's for sure the MC IMO.

Good luck.
 
First, pump up the system and will the pedal become firm and stay firm if you keep pressing on it with no leaks in the system? If if will, then it may not be the MC. The symptom that you describe of waiting 10 sec then the pedal will go to the floor is air in the brake system. Make sure that you have all the air out of the MC before attempting to bleed the entire system. When you bench bleed your MC how are you doing it? Descibe your process for using the speed bleeders, and the pressure bleeder.

I have never trusted speed bleeders. You can get air back in the system if their is not a good seal between the bleeder and the cylinder/caliper.

Get a friend and do it the old way by pumping up the system and letting the pressure off one wheel at at time and watch for clean, bubble free fluid out of each wheel then close the screw and pump the system up again. When you start your bleeding process, start with the brake furthest away from the MC. Do only one wheel at a time. It will take several cycles to bleed any one completely. Typically 4 to 5 cycles. Then move to the next one. The order should be passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, then driver front.

If fluid is not moving rapidly out of the bleed screws when you use this process, then start looking for trouble in that part of the system and then work your way back to the MC. There could be a blockage in one of the brake hoses/lines that could prevent you from completely bleeding the system. I have seen failures in brake hoses that act like a check valve and allow fluid to move in only one direction. Anything is possible on our old cars...

Make sure that you have your proportioning valve completly open when doing your bleeding.

Good luck, and let us know what you find...

John
 
Alright guys, well I guess I will go home tonight, recruit a friend and try a few more rounds of bleeding. Then if that doesn't work I will get another MC, I really hope that this one is fine because I really hate taking those things off.

As for the bench bleeding process, what I did was block off the two outlets on the side with the supplied plastic nuts. Then I proceeded two use a dowel and pump the pedal with intervals of 15 seconds.

All the connections of brake line are all dry, there is no apparent seepage.

Tonight I will make sure that my proportioning valve is fully open and attempt to bleed it then.

I cannot wait to get this thing on the road. Thanks for the replies.
 
D.Hearne said:
I think your problem is the master cylinder too. Had lots of old ones do the very same thing. Had to pump them up to make them work. Might try a larger bore master cylinder too.

Do you think that my new 74 Maverick MC is adequate for my application, I could have sworn that I have heard people using this one before.
 
First of all, if you have put calipers in the rear they take a ****load more fluid than wheel cylinders so i dought if you can use a maverick master that was designed for drum brakes. Wha t your describing generally happens when rear drum brakes are out of adjustment and you have to pump the pedal to push the pistons out. That would be consistent with replacing a drom brake with a caliper.

PS. you may want to do a search here on the boards, one of the guys has a real nice brake conversion page that was posted here a few months ago, can't remember who it was but it had all the specs and parts you should use on a swap.
 
When you used the caps on the MC with the dowel rod, does the piston get really hard to push? If not you do not have all the air out.

If the air is not out, you may want to try this... Loosen the caps, push in the MC piston, close the caps, release the piston. Repeat this process until you have fluid coming out of both the caps. Then follow the procedure that comes with the MC.

The 74 Maverick MC will work fine. It is what was on my car before I swapped the rear for a Versailles.

John
 
One thing I want to say about bench bleeding the master cylinder. It should take less than 5 minutes. If you are bench bleeding and it's not very firm in 10 minutes, I say take the thing back to the parts store and get a replacement.

I didn't know how long it should take, and I spent over 2 hours trying to get a MC to firm up on the bench. Small air bubbles were still coming out, so I thought it just needed a little more. Wrong. :bang:

Yes, I'm not always the brightest bulb. :shrug:
 
WORTH said:
First of all, if you have put calipers in the rear they take a ****load more fluid than wheel cylinders so i dought if you can use a maverick master that was designed for drum brakes. Wha t your describing generally happens when rear drum brakes are out of adjustment and you have to pump the pedal to push the pistons out. That would be consistent with replacing a drom brake with a caliper..


The rear brakes are still drum brake setup and I adjusted them the other night just to make sure. As for the site you mentioning, I think it may have been 2BaV8. That was one of the sites I had looked at prior, to performing the swap, it had some great info. Thanks WORTH.

SnakeStang65 said:
When you used the caps on the MC with the dowel rod, does the piston get really hard to push? If not you do not have all the air out.

If the air is not out, you may want to try this... Loosen the caps, push in the MC piston, close the caps, release the piston. Repeat this process until you have fluid coming out of both the caps. Then follow the procedure that comes with the MC.

I spent about 15-20 minutes bench bleeding and it did get harder to push towards the end. As for the recommened technique, do you think I could try something similar while on the car? What a friend recommened was to loosen the lines running out of the MC and push the pedal down and hold, then tighten up the lines and release the pedal back up. He said that would get the air from the lines easier than running it through the entire line to the caliper. Thanks for the reply SnakeStang.
 
monk302 said:
The rear brakes are still drum brake setup and I adjusted them the other night just to make sure. As for the site you mentioning, I think it may have been 2BaV8. That was one of the sites I had looked at prior, to performing the swap, it had some great info. Thanks WORTH.



I spent about 15-20 minutes bench bleeding and it did get harder to push towards the end. As for the recommened technique, do you think I could try something similar while on the car? What a friend recommened was to loosen the lines running out of the MC and push the pedal down and hold, then tighten up the lines and release the pedal back up. He said that would get the air from the lines easier than running it through the entire line to the caliper. Thanks for the reply SnakeStang.

That method will work fine, I have always bench bled just by holding my fingers over the fittings. and let the fluid blow by never seems to be a problem, just watch your eye's.
 
monk302 said:
Do you think that my new 74 Maverick MC is adequate for my application, I could have sworn that I have heard people using this one before.
Well, others will disagree with me, but, I'd run a larger master cylinder. And you'd be better off removing those plugs and run some bleeder lines from the ports back into the reservior to bench bleed it.
 
with all this talk about bleeding, I've never had problems bleeding the old stuff. I wonder if the proportioning valve is not working properly? Did you try bypassing it and see if that helps?

Another thought, are you running disc front and drum rear? And was the master you bought set up for the same thing?