Just starting off at the strip with this car. I havent done a lot with mustangs. I am running the car primarily stock for now. I want to install a hot cam, 4.10 ring & pinion, cold air intake, flowmasters, and bottle feed a 150 wet shot. Any input? How do yall think it will run in the quarter mile?
Good recipe for a street/strip car?
- Thread starter jdl95stang
- Start date
The bottleneck is the heads. Don't waste money on the cam, if you don't intend to do the heads. In most circumstances, you will lose power with a cam change.
Kurt
Kurt
Adam95GT
New Member
Ported stock heads flow really well. There is a guy in FL who sells rebuild ported heads, Thumper Performance of Orange Park. He sells a pair in the $600 range with a core exchange. Says you can get 300rwhp with the right cam and intake. So, that's about 420rwhp to the wheels with a 150 shot. How fast the car runs depends on suspension, tires, transmission, and weight reduction, etc.
Kurt
Kurt
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
$600 is a hair short for some used twisted wedge heads. No way i'd spend that for ported stock heads. Save for another 2 months (or however long) and get some quality heads.
OR go to Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market and pick up an explorer motor from somewhere local. Throw a cam in it...and you will be smiling. I got one with about 70k for $500. Intake to oil pan. (the intakes are as good as cobra/gt40 intakes).
The explorer motor is pretty much the same thing as the cobra motor.
Do your research. Search the forums for gt40p swaps (or gt40). Look at what headers fit. Look at what explorers come with what heads (earlier explorers were gt40...then they switch to gt40p heads.
You are much better off going this route than spending $600 on stock ported heads.
You can find gt40p/gt40 heads in the classifieds for $200 or so. But u a short block and a great intake for only $300 more. The only way i wouldnt go this way is if u had a low mileage motor already. Then if u want, u can slowly build up the motor thats in your car now to whatever u like over the next couple years and enjoy the new power
Just for reference, look up the Stan Weiss flow bench data. Fully ported GT-40P heads, flow exactly one CH more than fully ported E7 heads. And hands down, ported E7 heads are going to out flow stock GT-40 heads. Given the limited availability of GT-40 heads, you are much better off porting the E7 heads. There is also an engine dyno test out there as well. The fully ported GT-40 heads made 1 hp over the ported E7 heads.
Kurt
Kurt
nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Who said anything about porting gt40p heads? If that is your plan then again....just go aluminum from the start.
Which car would run faster, a stock intake/ported e7s.....or an explorer intake/gt40p combo? Better yet, which is a better buy for the performance gained?
Lets be perfectly honest here, ported e7s and gt40p's are not where guys want to end up. They are a stepping stone to get to something faster. So unless you can port heads yourself, or u get them for cheap....why on earth would you spend aluminum head money on a set of ported stock heads that dont flow nearly what aluminum heads flow? That makes no sense! The appeal of going the gt40 route is the performance you gain for the dollar spent.
Part of this hobby is knowing what you want to do. I wasted so much money jumping from combo to combo. If i would have just done what i wanted from the beginning....i would have saved a ton of cash. If that means holding off on purchasing stuff until u can afford better stuff....DO IT. It will be worth it in the end. Buy something that can grow with you(its not the norm for someone to be content with their first performance upgrade). Dont put good money into something that is already inferior to just a basic aftermarket part before you even bolt it onto your motor.
Factory ford heads are trash. And whats funny(and completely off topic)....you can buy lsx factory heads for $635 that kick ass. Get ready to drop twice that for some heads that even think of competing on a ford.
The true blue i bleed ford blue guys will hate that.
Black95GTS
Active Member
4.10 is too much gear for a nitrous motor, that on ported stock heads, won't see anything over 6000 RPM shifts.
Do you have a specific goal in mind?
Adam
Do you have a specific goal in mind?
Adam
Ok so I should save for new heads. As for gearing and such, I want something that will put some power to the ground but not rev the piss out of the engine. After all, it is a stock engine right now. Will build it from the ground up before going above a 150 shot but.... hoping for a flat 12 before having to do the full build.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
You may be able to find used alum heads for a few hundred over the $600 on the ported E7's. However, remember you will want to get those used alum. heads checked out at the very least...and if you need anything...mill, valve job, springs, any repairs will jack that few hundred to at least double the "few hundred" extra you spent (my comp beehive springs cost around $200 years ago). Springs and mill would almost be certain if your not running the exact cam the prior owner did or if the springs are old and a very slight mill to make sure the alum is flat.
Now those $600 E7's will not flow as much as alum heads but they will have everything fresh and ready to go. No after purchase work needed. This is something you dont get a lot from the "just buy some alum" heads for a few hundred more argument. You will get a head that flows better more than likely but you will in the end spend more too.
Same with the gt40's you will want to get them looked at and freshened up...sure you could just drop them on. The springs on the P heads if directly from an exploder...are not up to the task of IIRC even the stock GT cam. So at least expect upgrading springs before you install with nothing else done. Depending on the miles and how the motor was maintained you very well again may need a valve job, mill, valve guide work.
Used heads should not just be tossed on unless they were checked and happen to have a spring that will work with your setup already and your not going to find those kind of alum heads for just a few hundred more from the $600 ported head. I would bet outside of a great deal it would be hard to find a true ready to go freshened set of alum heads for under 1k...outside of something like a gt40 Y or lower tier alum head.
Now those $600 E7's will not flow as much as alum heads but they will have everything fresh and ready to go. No after purchase work needed. This is something you dont get a lot from the "just buy some alum" heads for a few hundred more argument. You will get a head that flows better more than likely but you will in the end spend more too.
Same with the gt40's you will want to get them looked at and freshened up...sure you could just drop them on. The springs on the P heads if directly from an exploder...are not up to the task of IIRC even the stock GT cam. So at least expect upgrading springs before you install with nothing else done. Depending on the miles and how the motor was maintained you very well again may need a valve job, mill, valve guide work.
Used heads should not just be tossed on unless they were checked and happen to have a spring that will work with your setup already and your not going to find those kind of alum heads for just a few hundred more from the $600 ported head. I would bet outside of a great deal it would be hard to find a true ready to go freshened set of alum heads for under 1k...outside of something like a gt40 Y or lower tier alum head.
alleymad95GT
Member
This has been exactly my experience. I can find used aluminum heads for sale, but by the time I factor in the additional cost associated with buying used heads, I often realize I would just be better ordering a set of new ones off of Summit. I have been unable to find anyone who is willing to sell used aluminum heads for what they are really worth. I mean, honestly, if bargain priced used heads end up costing $1,500, why wouldn't I just buy brand new for $1,300?
This is not to say you will not get lucky and stumble across some poor fool, about to go bankrupt, that has a brand new set of Twisted Wedge heads sitting in the Trick Flow plastic wrap and will let them go for the $600 he needs to keep from losing the minivan to the repo guy. It has occurred, and it will occur in the future. But, if you wait around forever for it to occur, you will end up doing just that - waiting forever.
Ultimately, you need to sit down and really think about what you want out of your car. By mentioning the 4.10 gears in conjunction with the 150 shot and the stock lower end, it makes me think you really don't know what direction you want to go in. Until you figure that out, then I would seriously put off spending thousands of dollars on parts.
Not trying to be a dick or anything here...just don't want to see you throw money away by putting together a mismatched combo that blows up the first time you hit the juice.
Dino Dino Bambino
15 Year Member
I think before you start spending tons of money on HP-increasing mods, you need to lay the foundations first so that when you do start adding more HP, you can make full use of it. Therefore I suggest that to begin with, do the following:
1. Weight reduction: You'll find the best weight reduction thread at SN95 Mustang Weight Reduction List - American Muscle Registry . If you don't need the AC you can remove the compressor, lines, and condenser to save even more weight. Aluminium heads will also save 40+lb so think about those before throwing money into ported iron heads.
2. Chassis & suspension: Subframe connectors, rear upper/lower control arms, remove front antisway bar (strip only), adjustable shocks/struts.
3. Stickier tires.
4. Gear swap. If you're planning to build up the engine with heads/cam/intake and spray, stick to a 3.55:1 or lower ratio. Use a 3.73 or 4.10 only if the engine's going to stay N/A and without spray.
5. Upgrade fuel pump. You're going to need that fairly early on in the mod process so go straight for a 255lph pump. It'll allow plenty of room to grow.
6. Upgrade brakes. The '94-'98 Cobra front brake kit with 13" rotors and PBR dual piston calipers is a straight bolt-in swap and fairly inexpensive. I did it and it made a night-and-day difference over the stock GT front brakes.
7. Short throw shifter. A lot of people swear by the MGW short throw shifter so give it a look.
While you're saving up to buy performance-enhancing parts, there's some freebie mods you can do to get you going.
I don't do a lot of posting, but have been into mustangs, mainly fox bodies for almost 2 decades and 9 mustangs. This is some of the best advice I have seen. If I have learned one thing, buy it once, and buy it right. This is the reason he told you to buy the 255lph fuel pump and not what you think will be enough for now. They are within a few dollars of each other in price, and will not hurt anything by being more than you need at present time, and will be there for you if/when the time comes you do need more. The money is only spent once and the money saved can be put toward the main goal. If it were me, I would be doing the gears, 3.73's as first real mod, as they will enhance the benefits of any future mods you do. Too many times I see people concentrate on motor only, and not understand the importance of gears. Example, my friend has a 89lx hatch with cobra intake, worked gt40 heads, full bolt on's with exception of a gear. I have tried to tell him for years how much he is leaving on the table. My 93 coupe will punish him, his excuse, its lighter. Well, just bought this 95gt, it is bone stock except for a 3.73 gear and suspension mods, and guess what, will walk off on him with ease, and a lot heavier than his car. So my point is this, all the power in the world is worthless if your car can not make use of it. Build a good foundation, and then your heads, power adders etc. will all work for you the way they should. Hope this helps, Joe
Lets be perfectly honest here, ported e7s and gt40p's are not where guys want to end up. They are a stepping stone to get to something faster. So unless you can port heads yourself, or u get them for cheap....why on earth would you spend aluminum head money on a set of ported stock heads that dont flow nearly what aluminum heads flow? That makes no sense! The appeal of going the gt40 route is the performance you gain for the dollar spent.
There's some truth to that, but the E7s are way cheaper at around $600. Most of that money is machine work which you would spend on the aluminum heads anyway. There is a big gap in price.
Kurt
blksn955.o
Founding Member
I went the money spent route with some take off gt40's years ago. spent $550 on mill, tank, valve job, springs (correct beehives for .550 lift spec'd out for a TFS1 cams needs and eventual 1.72 change), complete going over of the gt40's. If you are going to run fresh heads...you will need to get them freshened up. If your not running heads that have been gone over your going to have a machine shop bill if its done right. Its weather the bill is included in the price of the heads or as an added expense.
IMHO if your going to run take off gt40p's from an exploder it may run but you will not be seeing the numbers those that have gone over the combo.
If your plans will be alum down the road do it now. If you have your hp goals set and no desire to go much higher and the iron heads meet that goal do that. You really need to ask yourself what is my goal. IF its just to run low 13/ high 12's...just run a 125 shot on your stock longblock with what bullit posted and your done.
IMHO if your going to run take off gt40p's from an exploder it may run but you will not be seeing the numbers those that have gone over the combo.
If your plans will be alum down the road do it now. If you have your hp goals set and no desire to go much higher and the iron heads meet that goal do that. You really need to ask yourself what is my goal. IF its just to run low 13/ high 12's...just run a 125 shot on your stock longblock with what bullit posted and your done.
I have yet to see an out of the box aluminum head that was ready to go. Most need at least a valve job to get the most out of them. Most out of the box aluminum heads pick up a lot with some bowl work too. So either way, you are spending money on machine work.
Kurt
Kurt
Black95GTS
Active Member
AFR heads are ready to bolt on straight from the box.
Don't forget the weight savings off the front of the car with aluminum heads.
In terms of suspension upgrades, if the goal is 12s the stock suspension and slicks will get you there with the right engine package and gearing. For your goals I personally would stop at subframe connectors and control arms. There is no need for the complete Team Z suspension at this level.
Adam
Don't forget the weight savings off the front of the car with aluminum heads.
In terms of suspension upgrades, if the goal is 12s the stock suspension and slicks will get you there with the right engine package and gearing. For your goals I personally would stop at subframe connectors and control arms. There is no need for the complete Team Z suspension at this level.
Adam
You can use AFRs out of the box, but AFRs in particular pick up a lot of power with a little bit of port work, and a proper valve job.
Kurt
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