Man it is good to see the ole bucket getting some love. still looks great, at least to me
Progress Thread Grover: Window motor replacement & OEM rebuild
- Thread starter FastDriver
- Start date
Yep
...and then you settle back in that bucket seat. The car kind of pointed its own way to the longer more twisty road back to the house. Hopefully, you will remember to cast an eye on the speedo for the [big] corner so that you have a reference for next time. As the
-eating grin crawls across your face and the feeling in the pit of your stomach "pings" just once (hope I don't get a ticket), you're satisfied that you still made the right decision. 
Scroll down to 3) here:
aeromotiveinc.com
They do not get into the math but I trust Aeromotive as they build quality pumps, rails, and regulators.
FAQs
Discover Aeromotive’s superior fuel systems, where cutting-edge aerospace engineering meets automotive passion. Explore our range of high-performance fuel pumps, filters, and regulators, designed for reliability and efficiency at any speed, any angle, or any condition.
aeromotiveinc.com
They do not get into the math but I trust Aeromotive as they build quality pumps, rails, and regulators.
I read it, and so far as I can see, that's 100% the way it's plumbed.Scroll down to 3) here:
FAQs
Discover Aeromotive’s superior fuel systems, where cutting-edge aerospace engineering meets automotive passion. Explore our range of high-performance fuel pumps, filters, and regulators, designed for reliability and efficiency at any speed, any angle, or any condition.
They do not get into the math but I trust Aeromotive as they build quality pumps, rails, and regulators.
From #3:
Now review pic #3 in Post #237.
Am I missing anything?
Replying to me? I'm pretty sure you were the source of the info. Was it the injectors that were tapping out & the reason they backed the tune down to 935? In any case, as I have the Weldon 2025 on my other car, I'm aware that at higher voltage it can support more. 120 injectors might have been the culprit, but figured they'd definitely support more. Frankly, the pump is good for higher voltage & the injectors will flow a ton more with another 10psi. I really think there's plenty of fuel system for an even bigger turbo, which I will probably do in time on my other car. However, 'Grover' is going to be street focused, as that's what its suspension calls for. 600-700 rwhp is way more than enough for this car, and everything on the car is over-engineered for that power level.
YOU TALKIN TO ME?!?! no just saying, I bet it was fuel limit due to pump CA E85 and I didnt test it. I bet with good E85 it woulda been even mpre power. I 100% agree that much power in a non drag set up is kinda silly, 600 rwhp will still be a handful. but remember kids burnouts are fun!
Latest news is that the car should be back in my hands on Friday, 6OCT23.
Cliffs notes for the rest: There's a problem with the twin disk failing to fully disengage, it didn't make much power on the break-in dyno though it is running and driving, he's worried about running a T-stat with the electric water pump, doesn't like the valve covers, & he can't seem to figure out the BS3 tuning software.
Details:
Michael talked about a few of the issues he's having with the car, and I wasn't to happy to hear about 'em, but at this point I'll just be happy to have a running engine with the car back in my hands in time for the show:
- The clutch won't completely disengage, even though it is driveable. Apparently, I'd tightened up the adjustment on it so much to get it to disengage that he was worried about the pressure it would put on the Thrust Bearing in the engine. He said that as-is it won't go into reverse without shutting the car off, shifting into it, and then restarting. Exactly what I remember from when the clutch was damaged in my other car from Team-Z's installation. I'm worried about the stress that'll put on the synchros. Back in the day, the problem was due to input shaft collar (TOB retainer) going so deep that it bent the center disk. Then, McLeod failed to properly repair it, and it took sending back to them 3 times. Those f@#$ing McLeod twin disks (Original Street Twins) feel great when they're working, but I have just had problem after problem. I have a spare on the shelf. I'll install it myself and do everything to the absolute gnat's ass & if it fails again, then
it... done with them. Maybe try the RXT or some other brand of clutch.
- Claims that the Meziere Pump is not meant to have a thermostat & recommended making it a restricter instead of a T-stat. He's worried about pressure or something and it backing up into the reservoir. Don't know what he's talking about & never had the slightest issue with the set up. However, with an electric water pump, it does kinda make me wonder why a t-stat would be needed... Wouldn't you just tune it such that the pump comes on when you need the coolant to flow, eliminating the need for a t-stat? I dunno. I don't I'll change anything there.
- He doesn't like the valve covers and says they're prone to leak or that it's just a matter of time. I really can't remember them leaking, but hell, it's been 4 years. Plus, I think they look great. We'll see what happens and I'll adjust if and when it becomes necessary.
- Says the tune was way the hell off, which is posted a page or two back in this thread. Says I need to buy a BS3 license, which I don't think is true or perhaps I've forgotten that I already have the license. Dunno which, but think I never needed a license. He says that it wasn't taking adjustments he made from the AFR table. Again, no idea what he's talking about there, but I'll get my old laptop fired up and working again & try to find my old tunes for the car. I absolutely know it was taking adjustments when I entered them. So, when he gets here, we'll go do it together with my stuff.
- Says the car made less than 300rwhp because of back pressure on the exhaust side. Asked if he'd used the blocker plate without the turbocharger like he'd planned, and he said no. He just forced the WG open somehow and the car never built to 1 bar (atmospheric) in the intake. That's alarming to me, because there's no way the motor, at 10.5:1, shouldn't make closer to 400rwhp. He agrees that using the blocking plate would have probably gotten it there. I guess once again, I just don't know what the hell he's talking about. With the WG fully open, if there was still too much back pressure, even with the WG wide open, then wouldn't that cause the turbo to spool? Which would then cause a >1bar, or positive gauge pressure, situation on the intake side?
He wants me to set up a session at a dyno to do some tuning. To that end, I looked up shops in the area, and of course it's Sunday so no one is answering the phone. That gave me time to reflect that I probably do NOT want to tune the car beyond what we can do on the street. If there's one thing I want to achieve, it's getting thating car to Foxtoberfest, this year. I do not want to blow the damned thing up or run into any issue that may prevent that goal. So, what's the point of pushing it on the dyno before the show?
At the end of the day, I don'ting care as long as the long block is right. He did a solid job building the short block on my other car. I'm sure he did a fine job of it again with this engine. That's what I really needed. I'll do what I can with him to get it driving around on the street, when he delivers it. Then later, I'll be careful tuning &/or hire a pro after Foxtoberfest to get it done right.
Sorry for the rant, but dropping 4-5 problems on me 2 weeks before Foxtoberfest did not put me in the best mood.
Cliffs notes for the rest: There's a problem with the twin disk failing to fully disengage, it didn't make much power on the break-in dyno though it is running and driving, he's worried about running a T-stat with the electric water pump, doesn't like the valve covers, & he can't seem to figure out the BS3 tuning software.
Details:
Michael talked about a few of the issues he's having with the car, and I wasn't to happy to hear about 'em, but at this point I'll just be happy to have a running engine with the car back in my hands in time for the show:
- The clutch won't completely disengage, even though it is driveable. Apparently, I'd tightened up the adjustment on it so much to get it to disengage that he was worried about the pressure it would put on the Thrust Bearing in the engine. He said that as-is it won't go into reverse without shutting the car off, shifting into it, and then restarting. Exactly what I remember from when the clutch was damaged in my other car from Team-Z's installation. I'm worried about the stress that'll put on the synchros. Back in the day, the problem was due to input shaft collar (TOB retainer) going so deep that it bent the center disk. Then, McLeod failed to properly repair it, and it took sending back to them 3 times. Those f@#$ing McLeod twin disks (Original Street Twins) feel great when they're working, but I have just had problem after problem. I have a spare on the shelf. I'll install it myself and do everything to the absolute gnat's ass & if it fails again, then
it... done with them. Maybe try the RXT or some other brand of clutch.- Claims that the Meziere Pump is not meant to have a thermostat & recommended making it a restricter instead of a T-stat. He's worried about pressure or something and it backing up into the reservoir. Don't know what he's talking about & never had the slightest issue with the set up. However, with an electric water pump, it does kinda make me wonder why a t-stat would be needed... Wouldn't you just tune it such that the pump comes on when you need the coolant to flow, eliminating the need for a t-stat? I dunno. I don't I'll change anything there.
- He doesn't like the valve covers and says they're prone to leak or that it's just a matter of time. I really can't remember them leaking, but hell, it's been 4 years. Plus, I think they look great. We'll see what happens and I'll adjust if and when it becomes necessary.
- Says the tune was way the hell off, which is posted a page or two back in this thread. Says I need to buy a BS3 license, which I don't think is true or perhaps I've forgotten that I already have the license. Dunno which, but think I never needed a license. He says that it wasn't taking adjustments he made from the AFR table. Again, no idea what he's talking about there, but I'll get my old laptop fired up and working again & try to find my old tunes for the car. I absolutely know it was taking adjustments when I entered them. So, when he gets here, we'll go do it together with my stuff.
- Says the car made less than 300rwhp because of back pressure on the exhaust side. Asked if he'd used the blocker plate without the turbocharger like he'd planned, and he said no. He just forced the WG open somehow and the car never built to 1 bar (atmospheric) in the intake. That's alarming to me, because there's no way the motor, at 10.5:1, shouldn't make closer to 400rwhp. He agrees that using the blocking plate would have probably gotten it there. I guess once again, I just don't know what the hell he's talking about. With the WG fully open, if there was still too much back pressure, even with the WG wide open, then wouldn't that cause the turbo to spool? Which would then cause a >1bar, or positive gauge pressure, situation on the intake side?
He wants me to set up a session at a dyno to do some tuning. To that end, I looked up shops in the area, and of course it's Sunday so no one is answering the phone. That gave me time to reflect that I probably do NOT want to tune the car beyond what we can do on the street. If there's one thing I want to achieve, it's getting that
ing car to Foxtoberfest, this year. I do not want to blow the damned thing up or run into any issue that may prevent that goal. So, what's the point of pushing it on the dyno before the show?At the end of the day, I don't
ing care as long as the long block is right. He did a solid job building the short block on my other car. I'm sure he did a fine job of it again with this engine. That's what I really needed. I'll do what I can with him to get it driving around on the street, when he delivers it. Then later, I'll be careful tuning &/or hire a pro after Foxtoberfest to get it done right.Sorry for the rant, but dropping 4-5 problems on me 2 weeks before Foxtoberfest did not put me in the best mood.
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You got me curious about an electric water pump and whether or not to use a t-stat. Ran across a good thread over on the Yellowbullet forums here:
Got the car Friday, and Mike Bell has hung out here at the homestead for the last couple days, leaving early this morning to head home.
On Saturday, we started tuning. After idling extremely rich, it ran fine initially, and we started making VE table changes, but then popped a fuse to the fan, which wasn't previously fused and because I was so focused on the tune, I wasn't watching the temp gauge. He'd put in a 30 amp in-line fuse on a 10Ga wire for the MkVIII fan, which don't think was near enough. When the 30 amp blew, the car got so hot it pushed coolant out of the cap & steamed up the engine bay. It ran like afterwards.... missing & bucking. Basically undriveable... obviously stressful to us both, though I think with a little bourbon & wine on tap, we handled it pretty well.
We spent the rest of the day doing some things on the car and then chilling out. He wanted to cut the t-stat into a "restricter", and I wanted to up the amperage on the fuse to 40 amps, which I'm thinking still may not be enough. We also changed the oil to a conventional 40-weight, and plugs after finding the original ones had fouled out.
There were plenty of shiny flecks in the oil & filter, but nothing concerning to Mike, considering this was the break-in oil. We got back to tuning late in the afternoon on Sunday, the temps stayed in the 175-190* range in ~70* ambient air. We spent about an hour tweaking the VE table and got the car to the point that it is pretty nice to drive. Then, for the first time I've experienced it, the O2 sensor went out. The BS3 simply stopped doing any closed-loop O2 correction, and the 'Actual AFR' read 14.5 constantly. Fortunately, even though we were 20+ min from home, we were in a good spot with the tune, and it drove fine without correction until we made it home. I swapped the O2, and the BS3 is working in closed-loop again.
It never overheated again. We believe that a combination of the runtime correction table that added "50" (percent?) at startup, and a coolant-MAP fuel table adding 20% above 244* pushed in so much fuel that we fouled the plugs out. Also, we noticed the bucking only happened for the first couple minutes after starting the car.
I believe I'm in a good enough spot to drive the car to Foxtoberfest, now. I plan on doing a little more test-driving & tuning, tomorrow. If I have any more trouble, I'll just put it in the trailer for the trip to Charlotte. Either way, it's going out there.
I've got a guy coming out to do a full detail on it, today. Pics coming soon.
On Saturday, we started tuning. After idling extremely rich, it ran fine initially, and we started making VE table changes, but then popped a fuse to the fan, which wasn't previously fused and because I was so focused on the tune, I wasn't watching the temp gauge. He'd put in a 30 amp in-line fuse on a 10Ga wire for the MkVIII fan, which don't think was near enough. When the 30 amp blew, the car got so hot it pushed coolant out of the cap & steamed up the engine bay. It ran like
afterwards.... missing & bucking. Basically undriveable... obviously stressful to us both, though I think with a little bourbon & wine on tap, we handled it pretty well.We spent the rest of the day doing some things on the car and then chilling out. He wanted to cut the t-stat into a "restricter", and I wanted to up the amperage on the fuse to 40 amps, which I'm thinking still may not be enough. We also changed the oil to a conventional 40-weight, and plugs after finding the original ones had fouled out.
There were plenty of shiny flecks in the oil & filter, but nothing concerning to Mike, considering this was the break-in oil. We got back to tuning late in the afternoon on Sunday, the temps stayed in the 175-190* range in ~70* ambient air. We spent about an hour tweaking the VE table and got the car to the point that it is pretty nice to drive. Then, for the first time I've experienced it, the O2 sensor went out. The BS3 simply stopped doing any closed-loop O2 correction, and the 'Actual AFR' read 14.5 constantly. Fortunately, even though we were 20+ min from home, we were in a good spot with the tune, and it drove fine without correction until we made it home. I swapped the O2, and the BS3 is working in closed-loop again.
It never overheated again. We believe that a combination of the runtime correction table that added "50" (percent?) at startup, and a coolant-MAP fuel table adding 20% above 244* pushed in so much fuel that we fouled the plugs out. Also, we noticed the bucking only happened for the first couple minutes after starting the car.
I believe I'm in a good enough spot to drive the car to Foxtoberfest, now. I plan on doing a little more test-driving & tuning, tomorrow. If I have any more trouble, I'll just put it in the trailer for the trip to Charlotte. Either way, it's going out there.
I've got a guy coming out to do a full detail on it, today. Pics coming soon.
Nope!
I might be youtube famous. Y'all might see Grover on The Fox Chamber.
I might be youtube famous. Y'all might see Grover on The Fox Chamber.
