H/c/i Need Help

Nikia · Oct 21, 2014

I have a 89 notch stang with a few minor bolt ons. I am doing h/c/I this winter and am in need of a little direction. I have a f303 cam probably going to go with a set of trick flow heads. 170cc? 190cc? 1300$ tops. And I have no clue what intake/rails/injectors. The last piece of the puzzle is I want as much of this as possible to be transferable to my 331 dart t76 turbo build next year.

FoxMustangLvr · Oct 21, 2014

Just my opinion but it seems that you should just wait and save your $$ to do your Dart turbo build. It's going to be very expensive. You'd be throwing a lot of money away just to do a HCI on your N/A 302 with only a few transferable parts going to your Dart while losing money on non-transferable parts.

This HCI for your N/A 302 will run you minimum $3k-$4k using quality parts. As far as I know what works great for a Dart 331 w/ a T76 won't be so ideal for a N/A 302. Save the money and put it towards a nice built auto trans, your turbo with thank you.

jrichker · Oct 21, 2014

What do you plan to do with the car? That should determine what sort of parts you buy.

Far too many people put a dab of this and a dollop of that, and then wonder why the car doesn't run worth beans. Then they think off the shelf computer chips will fix their mismatched parts problem. It won't You have to have a plan for what kind of performance you want: Hot street. Street/Strip, Pure strip, Autocross or Road course. Each one requires a different strategy and a different set of components.. Mismatch the components and you’ll have a car that falls flat on its face when you demand performance.

Everyone thinks HP! HP! HP! and thinks that peak HP is what they need. Peak HP is great for a drag strip car when it has the proper gears and tires to get the car up into the high RPM range where it develops that high peak HP near the finish line. On a street car, that strategy will have Honda Accords outrunning you, because you will never get the engine RPMs high enough without running over everything in your path.
Here’ the strategy: Always remember that there are some tradeoffs in any engine combination. Most of us don’t have enough money to “have it all” as if it was possible by some masterful combination of parts and tuning.

The following recommendations are for 5 Speed Manual transmission cars without NO2 or pressurized induction, stock short block.

1.) Hot street: Broad flat torque curve, high velocity airflow in the intake and heads for best throttle response. Gears suitable for reasonable gas mileage and long road trips without excessive engine RPMs. Stand on the gas pedal from a rolling start to squeeze into that gap in traffic in front of you, and it jumps quick and hard to get you there. Max RPM’s are 5200-5500 RPM for best power. Lopey cams may sound cool, but run poorly in a low RPM street environment.
Use stock cam, stock, GT40 or mildly ported stock heads, Cobra or Explorer/GT40 intake, advanced timing, stock 19 lb injectors, stock fuel pump. Use some good 1.6 or 1.7 ratio roller rockers for extra punch. Use a King Cobra clutch, with stock iron or steel billet flywheel. MAF cars can use a 65 MM TB from the Explorer intake manifold and a 70MM MAF from a 94-95 Mustang. Drive train: 3:55 gears with soft tread compound tires. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, stock 2 1/4” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. The stock computer will handle all this with no problems and doesn’t need any help in 90% of the cases. No skinny or grossly undersize tires for the front: remember you still have to stop quickly in traffic. Make sure all the rubber bushings in the front and rear suspensions are in first class shape. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Street/strip: A little more slope to the torque curve with a gently sloping peak. Use slightly larger port volumes on intake and heads for more peak HP. Uses 3.55 or 3.73 gears to get the RPM’s up into a higher range quicker. Be prepared to sacrifice some low RPM throttle response in exchange for high RPM power. This by necessity will be a Mass Air or Mass Air conversion on 86-88 5.0 Mustangs, since stock speed density will not run well with the changes in engine airflow. Don’t get too crazy on any one engine part since you still have to drive the car on the street, and a mismatch can make street driving miserable.
Use stock or mild aftermarket cam, Ported GT 40, or 165-180 CC port volume aftermarket aluminum heads. Use a Trick Flow, Edelbrock Performer or equal intake manifold. Take a 73 MM aftermarket MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors, and 24 lb injectors, 155 LPH fuel pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Be prepared to shell out some $$$ for a custom burned chip using data gathered from a dyno run. Mass market chips will not get the job done. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, aftermarket 2 1/2” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. Drivetrain: expect the stock T5 to fail, so save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Carry spare tires and wheels for the drag strip: skinnys for the front and drag radials for the rear. No skinnys for street driving! Over 85% of the breaking power is generated by the front tires, so skinnys won’t do the job in a panic stop situation. Disconnect the front anti-roll bar at the strip; reconnect it before you drive home. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Strip only: High RPM, High flow heads (185-215 CC port volume), wild cam, high flow intake manifold, 70 MM or larger TB, 80 MM or lager MAF, strip everything out of the car that doesn’t make it go faster. Carbs are OK if that’s what you want, but remember that as the temp/humidity/ barometric pressure/altitude changes, you have to re-jet and readjust the carb. EFI eliminates most of that with its built in compensation or you can tune of the fly with a high end Motes or Tweecer system combined with a wide band air/fuel ratio meter. Use custom headers, dumps and minimal mufflers. How fast you can go on 5 liters is a function of the skill level of the driver/mechanic and the size of your wallet.

TRAILER the car to the race track since it won’t be legal to drive it on the street. Drag slicks in the rear, skinnys up front, use 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) in the rear axle. Since you won’t be driving on long trips, the big gears with work with the high RPM power curve to get the best results. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Remove the front sway bar, put an airbag in the rear spring of the side that spins the tire the most. Plan on a roll cage if you are truly serious about going fast: most strips will require it once you get to a certain ET range.

Autocross is a combination of Hot street engine and street strip chassis prep. The engine must accelerate quickly from low RPM and needs a broad, flat torque curve. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Most of the time you’ll never hit third gear, so some 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) may help a lot. You’ll have to spend some more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. A 87-88 T Bird Turbo Coupe or SN 95 rear axle will be your best bet. Autocross will severely strain 1st & 2nd gears, so your T5 may take a premature dump. Save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices.

All out road race is the most difficult of all: an engine that will run at high rpm hour after hour and never fail, yet pull hard out of the hairpin turns that will require a lot of torque at lower RPMs. In my opinion, guys that can successfully build a winning road race engine are the cream of the crop. Top this off with a chassis built for strip only duty, but with changes to the settings of springs, tires, roll bars brakes and shocks. It’s a whole other world of racing.
You’ll have to spend lots more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. Air ducting to cool the brake rotors will be a must. The brake rotors of cars on a high speed road course glow red after several hard laps of racing. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600, and T56 close ratio are the best transmission choices.

Nikia · Oct 22, 2014

Street/strip: A little more slope to the torque curve with a gently sloping peak. Use slightly larger port volumes on intake and heads for more peak HP. Uses 3.55 or 3.73 gears to get the RPM’s up into a higher range quicker. Be prepared to sacrifice some low RPM throttle response in exchange for high RPM power. This by necessity will be a Mass Air or Mass Air conversion on 86-88 5.0 Mustangs, since stock speed density will not run well with the changes in engine airflow. Don’t get too crazy on any one engine part since you still have to drive the car on the street, and a mismatch can make street driving miserable. Use stock or mild aftermarket cam, Ported GT 40, or 165-180 CC port volume aftermarket aluminum heads. Use a Trick Flow, Edelbrock Performer or equal intake manifold. Take a 73 MM aftermarket MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors, and 24 lb injectors, 155 LPH fuel pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Be prepared to shell out some $$$ for a custom burned chip using data gathered from a dyno run. Mass market chips will not get the job done. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, aftermarket 2 1/2” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. Drivetrain: expect the stock T5 to fail, so save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Carry spare tires and wheels for the drag strip: skinnys for the front and drag radials for the rear. No skinnys for street driving! Over 85% of the breaking power is generated by the front tires, so skinnys won’t do the job in a panic stop situation. Disconnect the front anti-roll bar at the strip; reconnect it before you drive home.

This is a lot of help putting my plans into action. The whole turbo ideas a pipe dream that may one day come true. But for now I'm sticking with something like this^^. The heads I'm looking at are trick flow 170cc. Which trickflow intake? There is the base and the type R. 1.7 rocker arms? Already figured I would need a new trans. I have a 8.8 posi with 3.55s, stock axles. I want to go to 5 lug, mostly for wheel choice.

FoxMustangLvr · Oct 22, 2014

Trick Flow sells a top end kit that will provide you with 80% of what you need to get HCI finished. The kits come with different intakes and some with different cams as well (TFS stage 1 and TFS stage 2 cams). Each kit (cam and intake manifold) cater toward a different RPM range that suites your needs. I believe the Track heat intake is for higher rpms which will be good for the strip. The kit goes for $2800-$3k alone which isn't a bad deal at all. You will still need a TB, intake pipe, larger injectors and matching calibrated MAF, larger in tank fuel pump and hydraulic roller lifters. Combo, if done correctly, should net you about 360hp at the crank which through a T5 would be about 300'ish rwhp which is a lot of fun on a Coupe.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-k514-360350b/overview/

Nikia · Feb 21, 2016

Well I actually did the hci, figured I'd let yall know your time wasnt wasted. Ditched the turbo build. Ended up with a rebuild 5.0 bottom end, afr 165 renegade heads, chomoly rocker arms, lunati h bar lifters, upper and lower edelbrock rpm 2 intake and a comp custom cam. And put a tko600 behind it. It's running and driving but I can't start it with the ignition:/ I have to jump the starter sylinoid. I've tested the sylinoid and ignition both test passed. I'm left with either a bad clutch saftey or wiring problem. Being that the clutch saftey worked before the build I figure it must be wiring. If I remember right the head ground was relocated due to different bolt holes. The battery head ground is now on the spacer bracket for the accessories. Can't seem to find my problem browsing so I'm taking to yall.

FoxMustangLvr · Feb 21, 2016

How did you wire your starter? To which side of the starter solenoid is the wire going to? A picture would be helpful.

FoxMustangLvr · Feb 21, 2016

Also check this out. I've done this before and believe me it is important to follow each step and do not assume something is ok without actually checking/testing it.

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...-checklist-for-fuel-injected-mustangs.787471/

Nikia · Mar 2, 2016

When I turn the key from run to start it pops a "check oil" light.

stykthyn · Mar 2, 2016

Thread moved to tech. I've never seen that happen but perhaps @jrichker can chime in.

jrichker · Mar 2, 2016

What color are the wires and stripes on the wires on the connector you are holding in the second picture?

Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang

Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Ignition switch wiring

Nikia · Mar 2, 2016

Im color bliND so I will let you decide what color the wire is. It's not terrable, the color blindNess that is.

Nikia · Mar 3, 2016

Thanks a lot for the wiring diagrams.

jrichker · Mar 3, 2016

Looks like a black/light green wire and a black wire.
I didn't find that combination of colors and connector shape in the wiring diagrams, but I may have missed it.

PM me your email address and I will send you a complete Ford Factory 89 Mustang electrical diagram set. The zip file is 2.5 MB and is too big to fit through Stangnet's email gateway.

89 Mustang wiring diagrams zip package–

They are in a zip file format to reduce the size of the package. If you don't have Windows 7 or Windows 8, you’ll need WinZip or other Windows archive tool to extract them from the zip file.. See www.majorgeeks.com - Download Freeware and Shareware Computer Utilities for a free download.

The diagrams show the location area and the connectors are drawn to the same shape as those in the car.

You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html - Adobe Reader download - All versions

Nikia · Mar 3, 2016

Under switched power clutch saftey is reading 7.x volts. I removed the clip and plugged it with a fuse (Read you can bypass clutch saftey that way) this didn't work.

jrichker · Mar 3, 2016

Nikia said:
Under switched power clutch saftey is reading 7.x volts. I removed the clip and plugged it with a fuse (Read you can bypass clutch saftey that way) this didn't work.

What is the nature of your current problem? Is it:
1.) No Crank,
2.) Cranks OK but won't start
3.) Something else?

Nikia · Mar 3, 2016

It cranks and starts and runs. It just won't start by using the ignition. I have to turn the key to "run" and jump the starter sylinoid to crank the motor. It will then run.

stykthyn · Mar 3, 2016

Auto or manual

Nikia · Mar 3, 2016

Manual

stykthyn · Mar 3, 2016

Have you checked the neutral safety switch?

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