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H&R Super Sports installed, question in regards to ride quality

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seraphitia102
  • Start date Start date Jul 19, 2005
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tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 22, 2005
#21
  • Jul 22, 2005
  • #21
Actually the way to correct the 'bouncing' problem is to correct the front suspension from being off center, a Bumpsteer kit will dramaticlly reduce the front from 'bouncing' around from bumps in the road.

MM has a Tie Rod End kit and Steeda has a Bumsteer kit. What you have to do is set the kit from your drop.
 

1fast03pony

Member
Jul 1, 2003
749
0
17
41
New york
Jul 23, 2005
#22
  • Jul 23, 2005
  • #22
tomustang said:
Actually the way to correct the 'bouncing' problem is to correct the front suspension from being off center, a Bumpsteer kit will dramaticlly reduce the front from 'bouncing' around from bumps in the road.

MM has a Tie Rod End kit and Steeda has a Bumsteer kit. What you have to do is set the kit from your drop.
Click to expand...


Im bumpsteered with a steeda kit and it still bounces slightly
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Jul 23, 2005
#23
  • Jul 23, 2005
  • #23
tomustang said:
Actually the way to correct the 'bouncing' problem is to correct the front suspension from being off center, a Bumpsteer kit will dramaticlly reduce the front from 'bouncing' around from bumps in the road.

MM has a Tie Rod End kit and Steeda has a Bumsteer kit. What you have to do is set the kit from your drop.
Click to expand...

Will the bumpsteer kit do me anything else on top of getting rid of some bounce?
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Jul 24, 2005
#24
  • Jul 24, 2005
  • #24
I tried looking on MM's website, but I couldn't find a bumpsteer kit on their page, would anyone have the link to it?
 
J

Jakes

New Member
May 8, 2004
84
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Jul 24, 2005
#25
  • Jul 24, 2005
  • #25
Seraphitia102 said:
Will the bumpsteer kit do me anything else on top of getting rid of some bounce?
Click to expand...
NO!...

You don't need a bump steer kit.... here's why you don't see one on the MM site.

From MM instructions.

BUMPSTEER

Bumpsteer is the toe setting of a wheel changing as the suspension moves up and down over bumps, or with body roll while cornering.

There is a myth that the tie rod should be kept parallel to the ground to avoid bumpsteer. THIS IS NOT TRUE! What IS required, is that the tie rod be kept parallel to the lower control arm so that as the suspension moves, the arc of the ball joint and the arc of the tie rod end do not cause any steering input to the spindle. As you lower your car, the tie rod end and the lower control arm move together, staying
parallel. If you install offset rack bushings on a stock geometry K-member, you are making the tie rod end
and the lower control arm NOT parallel. You will actually CREATE bumpsteer by installing offset rack bushings on a stock K-member.

Ford engineers have actually done a very good job at designing a low level of bumpsteer for daily driven cars. Specifically, Ford has designed the bumpsteer to toe out the front wheels under bump. This is a roll understeer condition; the outside loaded tire will turn to the outside of a corner as the body rolls. This condition is designed by Ford by positioning the tie rod end slightly low relative to the steering rack.

Increasing caster raises the tie rod end relative to the steering rack. Increasing caster up to half of the
adjustment range with our Caster/Camber Plates will actually HELP bumpsteer and help performance by
reducing roll understeer. If you increase caster beyond half of the adjustment range, the bumpsteer curve will shift toward toe IN under bump, or a roll-oversteer condition. In this case, it is beneficial to raise the rack, but only by about 1/10 of an inch. Offset rack bushings raise the rack far too much. The best solution is to lower the tie rod end using a bumpsteer kit (MMTR-3,-4). See our test results in the July 1993 issue of Super Ford for details.

Competition cars using stock K-member geometry will also benefit from an adjustable tie rod end kit (MMTR-3,- 4). These kits provide an assortment of spacers in .015" increments to best position a rod end at exactly the correct height; thus taking into account suspension geometry tolerances.

Offset rack bushings DO have a purpose and may be beneficial if you have raised your inner control arm pivots using an aftermarket K-member. In this case, raising the rack will help match the geometry of the raised inner control arm pivots. If you do use offset rack bushings, be sure to only use aluminum bushings - polyurethane offset bushings do not work. The urethane has too much “give”, and therefore it is impossible to get the rack mounting bolts tight enough to prevent the bushings from rotating during hard cornering.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 24, 2005
#26
  • Jul 24, 2005
  • #26
1fast03pony said:
Im bumpsteered with a steeda kit and it still bounces slightly
Click to expand...

You set it right?
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Jul 25, 2005
#27
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #27
Jakes said:
NO!...

You don't need a bump steer kit.... here's why you don't see one on the MM site.

From MM instructions.

BUMPSTEER

Bumpsteer is the toe setting of a wheel changing as the suspension moves up and down over bumps, or with body roll while cornering.

There is a myth that the tie rod should be kept parallel to the ground to avoid bumpsteer. THIS IS NOT TRUE! What IS required, is that the tie rod be kept parallel to the lower control arm so that as the suspension moves, the arc of the ball joint and the arc of the tie rod end do not cause any steering input to the spindle. As you lower your car, the tie rod end and the lower control arm move together, staying
parallel. If you install offset rack bushings on a stock geometry K-member, you are making the tie rod end
and the lower control arm NOT parallel. You will actually CREATE bumpsteer by installing offset rack bushings on a stock K-member.

Ford engineers have actually done a very good job at designing a low level of bumpsteer for daily driven cars. Specifically, Ford has designed the bumpsteer to toe out the front wheels under bump. This is a roll understeer condition; the outside loaded tire will turn to the outside of a corner as the body rolls. This condition is designed by Ford by positioning the tie rod end slightly low relative to the steering rack.

Increasing caster raises the tie rod end relative to the steering rack. Increasing caster up to half of the
adjustment range with our Caster/Camber Plates will actually HELP bumpsteer and help performance by
reducing roll understeer. If you increase caster beyond half of the adjustment range, the bumpsteer curve will shift toward toe IN under bump, or a roll-oversteer condition. In this case, it is beneficial to raise the rack, but only by about 1/10 of an inch. Offset rack bushings raise the rack far too much. The best solution is to lower the tie rod end using a bumpsteer kit (MMTR-3,-4). See our test results in the July 1993 issue of Super Ford for details.

Competition cars using stock K-member geometry will also benefit from an adjustable tie rod end kit (MMTR-3,- 4). These kits provide an assortment of spacers in .015" increments to best position a rod end at exactly the correct height; thus taking into account suspension geometry tolerances.

Offset rack bushings DO have a purpose and may be beneficial if you have raised your inner control arm pivots using an aftermarket K-member. In this case, raising the rack will help match the geometry of the raised inner control arm pivots. If you do use offset rack bushings, be sure to only use aluminum bushings - polyurethane offset bushings do not work. The urethane has too much “give”, and therefore it is impossible to get the rack mounting bolts tight enough to prevent the bushings from rotating during hard cornering.
Click to expand...

thanks for the info
 

YardSpecial

New Member
Mar 20, 2003
2,664
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MT
Jul 25, 2005
#28
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #28
I run 40 psi and get great tread life and better gas mileage.
Pressure has nothing to due with handleing, its a flat contact patch and tire compound that makes the car stick

I I watch tread wear and tire temps and add/lower from there.

40 psi works good for now

Lots of newer tires run higher presures today..............
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 25, 2005
#29
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #29
Cavallo said:
Pressure has nothing to due with handleing
Click to expand...

the F it doesn't.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 25, 2005
#30
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #30
Jakes said:
NO!...

You don't need a bump steer kit.... here's why you don't see one on the MM site.
Click to expand...

What do you think the Steeda Bumpsteer kit is? It's Adjustable Tie Rod Ends, just like MM's.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 25, 2005
#31
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #31
I get tired of people quoting things out of catalogs insted of using the products. And I mean Jakes.

Anyone can do a cut & paste job, but in the end they really don't know what they are responding to.
 

YardSpecial

New Member
Mar 20, 2003
2,664
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0
MT
Jul 25, 2005
#32
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #32
tomustang said:
the F it doesn't.
Click to expand...




Talking street car here, tread wear & MPG is the rule. Too low pressure causes heat build up also, bad for tire............

You probably run stager on the street......
 
T

Torinalth

Founding Member
Jul 16, 2002
952
0
16
43
Clayton NC
Jul 25, 2005
#33
  • Jul 25, 2005
  • #33
Cavallo said:


Talking street car here, tread wear & MPG is the rule. Too low pressure causes heat build up also, bad for tire............

You probably run stager on the street......
Click to expand...

I'm with Tom on this one, but it also doubles on what you have said. tire pressure does alter the contact patch the ground sees. this is a very large reason people lower the pressure at the dragway. the entire point of pressure is to to create the optimal contact for the driving surface. on those that go for the corners over the straits the pressure will be higher then that of a drag car.

heat is of zero consequence on our tires unless you are running an open track event or REALLY hitting a winding road with all your suspension can handle. reason being that the tires in our size, with regards to the 1-2 out there that should never be made in a size for performance cars, are built for a very high speed rating, higher grip, and high heat. you will never reach those limits on a street drive unless the pressure is obscenely low driving on a baked phoenix highway.

as far as the comment on running stagger sizes, that is for a drag or looks car. more often then not an equal size front and rear is better suited for a car built for curves as you want a zero balanced front to rear give in a corner. pushed beyond the max your car should drift on a flat plane instead of invoking oversteer or understeer.... of course this can be altered with a good suspension alteration to make use of the setup

on a final note, I'll take Toms thoughts when it comes to the handeling department.

Torinalth
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 26, 2005
#34
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #34
Cavallo - In concerns about handling and pressure, less psi gives greater body roll and more psi gives too much of a stiff ride. 40psi is great for what your stating.
 

90RanGer

New Member
Apr 1, 2004
132
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Santa Cruz, CA
Jul 26, 2005
#35
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #35
Bumpsteer is exactly what it sounds like, when your tie rods arent moving in the same arc as the arms causing the steering to be affected by whatever you are driving over when the suspension is cycling, bouncnig has nothing to do with bumpsteer. The result of bumpsteer is your car steering in directions that you arent intending it to go because of steering geometry changes during the suspension cycle. Mustang bumpsteer isnt really that bad at all.. try driving an i beam suspesion ranger with 16" of travel through the desert at 60mph.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 26, 2005
#36
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #36
And your steering geometry is changed durring a 'bounce' This a Live axle we are talking about.
 

Seraphitia102

will post boobie pics for a supercharger
Oct 11, 2004
737
1
16
California
Jul 26, 2005
#37
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #37
So do you guys recommend 35psi for street driving or 40psi for street driving?
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
2
78
McLean Hospital
Jul 26, 2005
#38
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #38
I turned this thread into a warzone.

psi - try them both and see which one you like better.
 

CaliLifeStyle

New Member
Jun 9, 2004
625
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41
Oxnard, CA
Jul 26, 2005
#39
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #39
I just run the psi that is labeled on the side of the tire. That's what the tire manufacture recommends and I follow it. I don't want a blow out like what happened during the whole Explorer fiasco.
 

juiced_94gt

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
1,143
0
36
Southern California
Jul 26, 2005
#40
  • Jul 26, 2005
  • #40
i run 30 psi on my michellin's and it rides alot smoother than 40psi i have NO abnormal wear issues and handles great with the bilsteins and like i said before it will get smoother within weeks with the bilsteins
 
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