HCI on 100k+ shortblock. Yes or No ?

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2007

as far as a tune is considered.....

if i plan to pretty much leave it alone, then get a pro tune?

seems like for a nearby performance shop ( delkperformance ) its like $600-$800 for a custom burned chip, a tune and dyno time.

thats alot of dough....but i guess by the time i bought a cheap laptop and a tuner it would equal that?

Pokageek · Feb 28, 2007

D onot go there. Make the trip to kauffman motorsports. They are less mone yand better shop by far in my o.

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2007

Pokageek said:
D onot go there. Make the trip to kauffman motorsports. They are less mone yand better shop by far in my o.

previous experience with delk?

where is kauffman motorsports?

Therian · Feb 28, 2007

sorry for the late reply...as for forged pistons...I wouldn't worry about it on a stock block that's not going to be seeing high revs/boost.

Plus, if you swap out the pistons it will add a great deal to the final cost as you would have to get the block re-balanced for the weight difference...plus you'd probably have to bore .30 over for tolerance and clearance reasons. Stick with the stock pistons...

Not sure on the labor cost for installing a re-ring kit

Grady is correct to suggest both a compression test and a leak down test, before thinking about re-ringing and freshening up the engine. As he noted, it's important to differentiate a potential valvetrain problem from a piston ring problem...

Pokageek · Feb 28, 2007

Look them up on the net. They are in PA but WELL worth the drive. The yare also highly recommended by Killer canary and several other well known people in the industry. I have met all these people and so far very impressed with them on all levels.

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2007

Therian said:
sorry for the late reply...as for forged pistons...I wouldn't worry about it on a stock block that's not going to be seeing high revs/boost.

Plus, if you swap out the pistons it will add a great deal to the final cost as you would have to get the block re-balanced for the weight difference...plus you'd probably have to bore .30 over for tolerance and clearance reasons. Stick with the stock pistons...

Not sure on the labor cost for installing a re-ring kit

Grady is correct to suggest both a compression test and a leak down test, before thinking about re-ringing and freshening up the engine. As he noted, it's important to differentiate a potential valvetrain problem from a piston ring problem...

thanks therian

if i perform a leak down test and a compression test and all is good, would you go ahead with the HCI? would you install new rings ( if it was your engine )?

what else would you do/replace as far as seals/bearings/etc.......?

final5-0 · Feb 28, 2007

Here is the deal

Again its all about the rings ...
their condition gives a kind of rough life span left estimate

Now ... If the valves are leaking a bit ... WHO CARES
You're gonna be going with new heads anyway

If things check out reasonable well for the miles on the clock

I'd slap on those hot rod parts and do nothing to the block
except
Stick the higher lift bumpstick of your choice in it

Say the motor starts to decline a bit more early than you expected
You just move the parts over to a fresh block
or
Rebuild the one you now got

Now ... Right Now ... before you spend any money ...............
is the time to establish your long term goals so you don't
buy stuff twice

Example ... You now do h/c/i on your 302 oem block
and
Later you go to a nice B&B'ed 306 ... You got no probs
but
If Later you wanna go 5.0 stroker ... All your parts are too little

Know What I Mean Vern

Grady

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2007

final5-0 said:
Here is the deal

Again its all about the rings ...
their condition gives a kind of rough life span left estimate

Now ... If the valves are leaking a bit ... WHO CARES
You're gonna be going with new heads anyway

If things check out reasonable well for the miles on the clock

I'd slap on those hot rod parts and do nothing to the block
except
Stick the higher lift bumpstick of your choice in it

Say the motor starts to decline a bit more early than you expected
You just move the parts over to a fresh block
or
Rebuild the one you now got

Now ... Right Now ... before you spend any money ...............
is the time to establish your long term goals so you don't
buy stuff twice

Example ... You now do h/c/i on your 302 oem block
and
Later you go to a nice B&B'ed 306 ... You got no probs
but
If Later you wanna go 5.0 stroker ... All your parts are too little

Know What I Mean Vern

Grady

i got ya. i originally wanted to do a fresh 331 but funds wont permit it. i then steppd down to a fresh 306. funds wont permit that either. so now i am at a HCI on the stock block.

to be honest i expected a fair amount of negativity from stangnet as a whole for putting all these new parts on a 100k+ bottom end.

i was wrong.

i dont see myself doing any major engine changes for several years down the road. so i guess, since i have all the parts, minus the heads , why not use them

maybe in 3-5 years i can do the 331 or more i always wanted.

you have me a little worried when you mentioned the condition of my rings will give me a idea of the lifespan.....the car runs darn good. no smoke. use maybe 1/2 quart every 3000. i just hope the rings are ok....

-vern

gcomfx.com · Feb 28, 2007

final5-0 said:
Again its all about the rings ...
their condition gives a kind of rough life span left estimate

Engine = opposite of a Tree Got it.

fiveoho · Feb 28, 2007

thanks for everyones help/input

did not really realize how many of you guys have done a HCI on the stock bottom end

final5-0 · Mar 1, 2007

fiveoho said:
i have learned more since i chosen my parts for my HCI about a year ago. i dont think i have a 'bad' combo but im aware it isn't the best.

here is what i have :

TFS street heat upper and lower
TFS 2001 cam
FMS lifters ( used very low miles )
SVO elbow
BBK 70mm throttle body
PRO-M 75mm mass air ( calibrated for 24's )
FMS 24# injectors
Aeromotive afpr
Walbro 190 pump
FMS balancer ( non sfi )
FMS lifter spider
FMS 5 quart pan/pickup
FMS timing set

all these parts are currently in my storage building collecting dust.

the car already has Mac shorties, catless x and spintechs. also has a CAI and a 4.10 gear.

i need a set of heads. i am on a budget so i am leaning toward a set of GT40s or heavily worked E7s.

i am open to opinions on my combo and what sort of power to expect

As Always ... I got something to say

First a Q Is the cam in your list the same stage 1 cam you see
everybody using or the same one in the TFS kit

I see you are on a budget

You can cheap out on some parts and not suffer too much of a
performance loss

Heads ... They ain't one of em

Save longer and get Edel, AFR, or TFS ...
They are worth the extra money

Yes ... Some make it to 300 or better with OEM iron's
but
For every 1 who makes it ... 10 or more ... DON'T
and
Lots of them ... they don't even get close to 300

Ever seen that H U G E thread where tons and tons of
peeps talk about trying to reach 300 with them ...
Just think about that for a while
Then ask yourself ... why

I don't wanna offend those who've done them

I do wanna point out the facts support the reason
for the additional cost of the higher flowing heads

If you do go with OEM iron heads and have them worked over ...
At least ... go with the next step above E7's with 40's or P's

anyway ... hopefully ... you see I believe head choice is CRITICAL

Back to the budget thing .........
and
Maybe some long term goal idea kinda things

You can prop up the lower end
AND
Extend the entire power band

That is ... If that kind of thing interests you

1) If you see a deal on a Track Heat Upper sometime ............
You might consider it for the top end
and
2) LT's will give you a nice kick in the pants for low & midrange

Torque bands on ALL combos that peak 300 are not equal
and
IMHO...1 & 2 will make yours part of the group ... That Shines

Grady

fiveoho · Mar 1, 2007

i have learned more since i chosen my parts for my HCI about a year ago. i dont think i have a 'bad' combo but im aware it isn't the best.

here is what i have :

TFS street heat upper and lower
TFS 2001 cam
FMS lifters ( used very low miles )
SVO elbow
BBK 70mm throttle body
PRO-M 75mm mass air ( calibrated for 24's )
FMS 24# injectors
Aeromotive afpr
Walbro 190 pump
FMS balancer ( non sfi )
FMS lifter spider
FMS 5 quart pan/pickup
FMS timing set

all these parts are currently in my storage building collecting dust.

the car already has Mac shorties, catless x and spintechs. also has a CAI and a 4.10 gear.

i need a set of heads. i am on a budget so i am leaning toward a set of GT40s or heavily worked E7s.

i am open to opinions on my combo and what sort of power to expect

gcomfx.com · Mar 1, 2007

Freaky... Grady can predict a person's combo parts now.

fiveoho · Mar 1, 2007

final5-0 said:
As Always ... I got something to say

First a Q Is the cam in your list the same stage 1 cam you see
everybody using or the same one in the TFS kit

I see you are on a budget

You can cheap out on some parts and not suffer too much of a
performance loss

Heads ... They ain't one of em

Save longer and get Edel, AFR, or TFS ...
They are worth the extra money

Yes ... Some make it to 300 or better with OEM iron's
but
For every 1 who makes it ... 10 or more ... DON'T
and
Lots of them ... they don't even get close to 300

Ever seen that H U G E thread where tons and tons of
peeps talk about trying to reach 300 with them ...
Just think about that for a while
Then ask yourself ... why

I don't wanna offend those who've done them

I do wanna point out the facts support the reason
for the additional cost of the higher flowing heads

If you do go with OEM iron heads and have them worked over ...
At least ... go with the next step above E7's with 40's or P's

anyway ... hopefully ... you see I believe head choice is CRITICAL

Back to the budget thing .........
and
Maybe some long term goal idea kinda things

You can prop up the lower end
AND
Extend the entire power band

That is ... If that kind of thing interests you

1) If you see a deal on a Track Heat Upper sometime ............
You might consider it for the top end
and
2) LT's will give you a nice kick in the pants for low & midrange

Torque bands on ALL combos that peak 300 are not equal
and
IMHO...1 & 2 will make yours part of the group ... That Shines

Grady

that cam is actually the stage 2 (224/232 .542/.563)

i know my selection isnt ideal but like i said, i know a little more now rather than when i was selecting these parts. BUT i got ALOT of these parts cheap and they were also new.

my cam selection is not set in stone. i did buy that new from summit and still have the receipt. but i DO want to run a hot cam. i figured with 4.10s that might allow me to do that along with the street heat to make up for the bottom end. but now since i may be putting all this on a stock bottom end, PTV clearance concerns me and i have may have to step down cams for that reason?

heads: i would like a set of gt40s. at least a .550 spring, pref a .600. gt40ps would be nice too but i dont want to change out headers. trickflows, afrs etc would be nice....but it aint gonna happen. i just dont see me finding a set for a affordable price within my budget

fiveoho · Mar 1, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
Freaky... Grady can predict a person's combo parts now.

i typed it then retracted it but in between all that he quoted and posted. so i just reposted it up

almost looked like he had esp .....

gcomfx.com · Mar 1, 2007

I'm pretty sure I seen it up before. I thought you posted it twice, went back to the previous page and then decided I was just REALLY tired.

BTW - I upgraded the Trick Flow Track Heat kit to the stage 2 cam for my 331.

final5-0 · Mar 1, 2007

gcomfx.com said:
Freaky... Grady can predict a person's combo parts now.

I DON'T know about that

I DO know our hobby is an ... Expensive Hobby

We all want to gain with each buck spent

We all go

when we later learn we hosed
and
Then we go thinking about the hose up cost in dollars & effort

HEY ... We live in the information age Don't Ya Know

Why not take advantage of it

Soooooo

Wonder if anybody has pulls from a combo with ..............
OEM Iron heads and that stage 2 cam

We could then .......
thus
That would then allow us to .........

Grady

fiveoho · Mar 1, 2007

that helped

fiveoho · Mar 1, 2007

the cam was originally ordered to go along with my AFR185s, which i had to sell about a month ago. hence me mentioning i have the receipt to exchange/return

droptopford 5 0 · Mar 1, 2007

evrything looks like a well matched combo until you threw out the well worked e7/gt40 thing. i have no personal experience with building with those heads, but i have seen enough people struggle trying to reach power goals that i will throw my .02 in there... ill def agree with grady and recommend tfs heads. not afr's since the budget is tight. but then i wonder, how much of a price difference would it be between new alum heads,and gt40's after they are ported? cant be more than a couple hundred. if your budget is so tight, you probably shouldnt go through with the h/c/i swap. you need to have some wiggle room with funds in case something goes wrong in the install. i.e. it runs like crap after and "cant figure out why" those things tend to be timely at the least, and costly at the worst. don't mean to drag ya down, thats just my opinion. Good luck with whatever route you decide to go down. I always wish the best to any fellow SN member trying to step it up!

HCI on 100k+ shortblock. Yes or No ?

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