Head Gasket Trouble - Pull Engine

A5literMan · Jan 30, 2015

Those bolts are torque to yield one time and done! Do not reuse!!! Use the felpro gaskets,new arp studs/bolts(you can reuse them if you don't over torque them!)new bearings and rings,freeze plugs,and I recommend the rods/mains bolts and cam bearings. And definetly a new oil pump and pickup

stang89bidges · Jan 30, 2015

Why do I need new pickup? I can see getting a new pump after 25 yrs.

Hey guys, another question. I have a stage 3 clutch installed. How can I tell if it needs to be replaced?

stang89bidges · Jan 30, 2015

A few more pics just for the heck of it.

mikestang63 · Jan 30, 2015

If the pickup is fairly new and not clogged, reuse it. I don't know what pan gasket that is, but I use the Felpro 1 piece blue rubber one with steel reinforced bolt holes. The same material as the VC gaskets I use. While you are at it. replace the rear main seal with a Felpro one and install the stainless steel sleeve.

For the clutch disc, inspect it to see if any springs are loose, if the surface material is worn, damaged, burnt. Think of it like a brake pad. Also inspect the flywheel and pressure plate for signs of cracking, warping, discoloration from heat(hard use) and straightness.

Boosted92LX · Jan 31, 2015

@A5literMan @mikestang63 I'm not calling bs... but have honestly never seen any documentation on any sbf bolts being tty. I'm also not saying it's a bad idea to replace them... I've used them over and over with no problems, after a thourough inspection of course, replacing bunged up ones.. I know the 4.6 motors got tty bolts.. if you all could link this info from somewhere other than this forum I'd be very interested in reading it!
thanks..

edit: I've seen it argued here but never anything concrete which makes me wonder about hearsay..

elarm1 · Jan 31, 2015

If there is no concrete evidence on if they are or aren't, why chance the risk? To me it's cheap insurance and a much stronger bolt for his application. I see what you are saying but imo, it's not worth the risk. He doesn't know where his problem resides. Could be bolts, hg, block, no one knows as of yet. Better to be safe than sorry than replace his head gaskets for a FOURTH time. @Boosted92LX

Boosted92LX · Jan 31, 2015

elarm1 said:
If there is no concrete evidence on if they are or aren't, why chance the risk? To me it's cheap insurance and a much stronger bolt for his application. I see what you are saying but imo, it's not worth the risk. He doesn't know where his problem resides. Could be bolts, hg, block, no one knows as of yet. Better to be safe than sorry than replace his head gaskets for a FOURTH time. @Boosted92LX

Oh I agree 100% in his case that it's not worth the risk, please don't get me wrong. I'm just saying for mild stock rebuilds like the one I just did on my boy's car I've never had a problem... but I'm asking for clarification for my own benefit..

The question being are they really tty???

Chuckman · Jan 31, 2015

Head bolts are 100% tty, rod bolts arent, and main cap bolts shouldn't be. Remember, the head bolts also have to maintain a sealing surface where a main or rod bolt, at a lower torque value, dont.

Btw, switching to a main cap stud will require a rehone of the main journals (they load the caps in a different way than bolts, distorting the bores), so if you do put new hardware there, stick wuth a bolt vs stud unless you can pay for the hone job too.

Boosted92LX · Jan 31, 2015

Chuckman said:
Head bolts are 100% tty, rod bolts arent, and main cap bolts shouldn't be. Remember, the head bolts also have to maintain a sealing surface where a main or rod bolt, at a lower torque value, dont.

Btw, switching to a main cap stud will require a rehone of the main journals (they load the caps in a different way than bolts, distorting the bores), so if you do put new hardware there, stick wuth a bolt vs stud unless you can pay for the hone job too.

Ok.. again, do we have any documentation on these tty bolts? All I've found are threads on forums... mostly this one of ppl claiming it. Ive seen 4 or 5 different years claimed to have been the switchover date most commonly 1992. But ive also seen very studied ppl here say no they are not. Sorry to derail, just asking for something to read other than "yes they are tty." Ford service manuals perhaps?

mikestang63 · Jan 31, 2015

http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/instructions/tfs-51400002(2)1.pdf
Page 7 of 11

Head Bolt Note: On vehicles with torque-to-yield head bolts (1992 1/2 and later), the head bolts must be replaced. See the Recommended

https://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-6010-R451R452.pdf

Note: M-6065-B351 torque to yield bolts should be tightened per the bolt kit instructions

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335821607&icep_item=300651633402

Chuckman · Jan 31, 2015

Even if the earlier ones ARENT tty (which for sure the later ones are), after 25+years, youll still be waaaaay better off buying a $50 set of arp bolts and never having to buy a head bolt again.

Also, it's not the torque itself that uses up a tty bolt, its the stretch. This stretch happens even with the arps, but the materials the arps are made from will stretch the same amount every time for a given torque value, a tty (or even a regular grade8 bolt) will not, therefore will not provide an equal clamping ability the second time around, which is critical when you have to not just hold two parts together, but also maintain a sealing surface.

Boosted92LX · Jan 31, 2015

Ok. So mid year 92 was indeed the time frame they switched.. All my cars have been prior to that, explains why I never had trouble. Thanks guys.

madspeed · Jan 31, 2015

heads bolts? Who uses them?

A5literMan · Jan 31, 2015

Also the link the op directed us to at LMR specifically states DO NOT REUSE! They are tty. I'm computer illiterate and on my phone I do not know how to post this link. But if you follow it and scroll down it clearly states this. Fwiw

Shakerhood · Jan 31, 2015

Its cheap insurance to just use new bolts.

90lxwhite · Feb 1, 2015

A5literMan said:
Also the link the op directed us to at LMR specifically states DO NOT REUSE! They are tty. I'm computer illiterate and on my phone I do not know how to post this link. But if you follow it and scroll down it clearly states this. Fwiw

Even my tight azz would get new bolts and the good ones at that.

Boosted92LX · Feb 1, 2015

Again, not disagreeing with replacing bolts. I like arp everything, studs preferably. I'm just old enough though, that when I started wenching all of the cars I had at my disposal were from the 60's, and back then there was no such thing as tty bolts. Not used to seeing them on ford pushrod engines..Further more, unless you were using nitrous or had 12:1 compression, back then stock stuff would get you by. I know, because I had some pretty nasty cars in the 80s with stock hardware holding them together.. Not so much these days it seems. They certainly don't make em like they used to. Anyway, I wasn't aware of the introduction date for tty bolts and now I am, so again, thanks guys.

madspeed · Feb 1, 2015

TTY probably came about when China entered the American car business

stang89bidges · Feb 1, 2015

Flying to cali for work this week so I will be doing some serious research for these items. Gonna be in LA at big super bowl party with my upscale cousin. She's making homemade chili so it won't be caviar and wine no worries.

Definitely going to buy some new ARP head bolts thanks to a generous offer from a member here ty sir!

When I get the block back from shop, hopefully it's not cracked.

again my engine has never been cracked open before since 1989 from the factory. Everything has ford stamped all over it. So cool to see. And again, only 75,000 miles on her.

Did the heads of course 3 times but other than that she's all factory inside. I think I want to reuse the pickup but replace the pump. Keep the rod bolts but replace the main bolts. Replace all the main bearings and reuse the cam bearings if they check out ok.

Oil galley plugs and freeze plugs I will replace. Reuse the damper. With so few miles I really want to reuse the timing chain of I can.

What do you guys think? I plan on tearing her down in a couple years for upgrades so I think I will be ok with these decisions just getting her out on weekends for 2-3 years right?

Boosted92LX · Feb 1, 2015

stang89bidges said:
Flying to cali for work this week so I will be doing some serious research for these items. Gonna be in LA at big super bowl party with my upscale cousin. She's making homemade chili so it won't be caviar and wine no worries.

Definitely going to buy some new ARP head bolts thanks to a generous offer from a member here ty sir!

When I get the block back from shop, hopefully it's not cracked.

again my engine has never been cracked open before since 1989 from the factory. Everything has ford stamped all over it. So cool to see. And again, only 75,000 miles on her.

Did the heads of course 3 times but other than that she's all factory inside. I think I want to reuse the pickup but replace the pump. Keep the rod bolts but replace the main bolts. Replace all the main bearings and reuse the cam bearings if they check out ok.

Oil galley plugs and freeze plugs I will replace. Reuse the damper. With so few miles I really want to reuse the timing chain of I can.

What do you guys think? I plan on tearing her down in a couple years for upgrades so I think I will be ok with these decisions just getting her out on weekends for 2-3 years right?

Actually, your rod bolts see more stress that the mains, so if you want to change something, I'd reverse your thinking there.. and timing chains are cheap, and you have used 3/4 of the life of yours. I'd change it. I've reused pickups after flushing well and never had a problem. I did changed them after bad failures that put junk in the pan, but that's not the case with you.. I'd think you're fine there.

Head Gasket Trouble - Pull Engine

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

mikestang63

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

elarm1

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

mikestang63

Chuckman

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

A5literMan

At least it is lumpy...

Shakerhood

90lxwhite

I'm kind of a She-Man

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

madspeed

Colonel Mustard

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Similar threads

Head Gasket Trouble - Pull Engine

At least it is lumpy...

Advanced Member

Advanced Member

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

GTFO you fat, heavy bastard

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Colonel Mustard

At least it is lumpy...

I'm kind of a She-Man

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Colonel Mustard

Advanced Member

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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