Help!!! Car Keeps Dying!!!!

rebelboy194

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I've got an 87 mustang lx 5.0 T5. I fire it up and take off down the road once rolling it randomly will bog down and die. Then it will not restart until it sits for a little while. I've noticed that when it's bogging and i hit the gas pedal as i release the pedal it tends to slightly pick up for a second then bogs again. Supposedly the car has 24# injectors and an aftermarket fuel pump but the injectors are yellow top which correct me if I'm wrong but they should be the stock injectors, and yes the car is still speed density. Any help would be much appreciated. -Mike
 
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84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
Mod Dude
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This could be an endless list of problems, do you have a check engine light or any codes present?
 

rebelboy194

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I have no CEL's and haven't checked for codes yet but i will do that today. At first i was thinking it was the injectors and they were to large for the Ecm to calibrate for them once the engine is warm and in closed loop mode and it was flooding the engine but then it happened yesterday after starting it and driving about a mile.
 

84Ttop

They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
Mod Dude
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If they are orange top injectors they are stock 19 lbrs and I doubt that would be the problem, dump the codes first to see where youre at there
 

rebelboy194

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Ok so i unplugged the plug on the side of the throttle body which i believe is the Iac valve? And checked the plugs and they were coated in fuel but the car started however if i hit the throttle it died
 

Blown88GT

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'87 & '88 have no CEL. You'll have to use a test light or get a Ford OBD-1 code reader.

Yellow top injectors? Accel were yellow. Must research.

Without knowing any more I can hazard a guess?
27 year old car...fuel delivery problem...don't let the "experts" here take you down the electrical gremlin road, like they did me. I spent $1000 on electrical crap it never needed. The root case was this, happen to have pics up now.

Not saying this is it. Pull codes first. Then check fuel pressure & flow.
A clogged fuel filter will do what you describe.

Your symptoms sound a lot like mine did. Like ignition cutout?
Mine never died when applying gas at idle. At idle, my fuel pressure was fine & it would idle all day long. As soon as you left driveway, it did what yours seems to be doing.
 

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mikestang63

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Ok so i unplugged the plug on the side of the throttle body which i believe is the Iac valve? And checked the plugs and they were coated in fuel but the car started however if i hit the throttle it died
Take a deep breath. As mentioned, it can be a number of different issues. First thing to do is run the codes.

Do a search for Jrichkers post on how to run the codes- it's a sticky in the tech section. Very simple. All you need is a paper clip and a test light. Even if your car won't run, there are codes stored in the computer and you can run the Key On Engine Off part of the procedure. If you can get the car running, them run the Key ON Engine Running part and also the cylinder balance test.

Write down the codes- they will be in 2 number sequences and then come back and tell us what the numbers are.
 

Blown88GT

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I'm sorry what Is that in your pics?
Fuel pump sock, i.e. filter for fuel pump to keep trash from the tank from getting into the pump. Not supposed to be split open & if you look closely, some small plastic pieces are missing. Sock is attached to the pump which is located inside the fuel tank.

Fuel filter is outside the tank, above & forward under the car.

Definitely want to look at codes to see if any point to ignition.
 

rebelboy194

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ok so i pulled codes the first set was: 53- Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Above Max Voltage
85- CANP Circuit Failure

The second set of codes were: 53- Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Above Max Voltage
63- Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Below Min Voltage
 

Blown88GT

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Test TPS voltage, adjust if necessary.
http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=30
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/adjusting-your-tps-to-0-98v-is-not-necessary.825424/

Assume this is how you pulled codes: http://www.thorssell.net/hbook/eectest.html

No yellow injectors here:
Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg


This site says yellow are 19's: http://www.centralstreetscene.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-27280.html
Ford Bosch Stock Injector Colors & Sizes
12's - Gold top
14's - Blue Top - E3EE-BA ( Low Impedance )
14's - Gray top -
16's - Blue - E43E-AC ( Low Impedance )
17's - Creme/white top ( Low Impedance )
19's - White - E6EE-AB ( Low Impedance )
19's - Orange/Yellow top -
19's - Gold
19's - Yellow/Black
21's - Lavender - ( EV6 )
22's - Pink top ( EV6 )
23's - Black - E4EX-BA ( Low Impedance )
24's - Light bluish/gray top -
25's - Blue/Green -
25's - Light blue ( EV6 )
30's - Dark Red top -
30's - Green - E3ZE-BA ( Low Impedance )
35's - Brown top ( Low Impedance ) -
36's - Cobalt blue top ( sometimes silver )
37's - Green- E3VE-A1A ( Low Impedance )
39's - Blue ( EV6 ) ( thin style ) -
42's - Lime Green top -
46's - Blue - EOSE-A1A ( Low Impedance )
52's - Gray - E43E-AC ( Low Impedance )
56's - Blue - E43E-AC ( Low Impedance )
64's - Green - E53E-AB ( Low Impedance )
150's - Bright Orange top ( Low Impedance )
 
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Blown88GT

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I want able to do the key on engine running test i can't get it to start
Don't worry about that. Bad TPS could keep it from starting; but can't verify that. Fix or replace the TPS or could be bad wires or connections back to EEC.

You start by back probing the voltage at the TPS connector. You need 2 paper clips to shove down the wire at the backside, until they contact the pins. Don't let them touch each other. Also need a voltmeter with alligator clips to attach to paper clips. Make sure ignition is off. When all is okay, then ignition on. Probe between TPS & Sig Rtn. Vref to Sig Rtn is 5.0V. TPS to Sig Rtn will vary voltage when you move throttle between min & max.
TPS=DG/LG
Sig Rtn=Blk/W
Vref=O/W
TPS Pinout & Colors
 
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jrichker

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Code 53 - Throttle Position sensor too high – TPS – TPS out of adjustment, bad connections, missing signal ground, bad sensor.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.

Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy. Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.

The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running.

Here’s a TPS tip I got from NoGo50

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks.

(copied from MustangMax, Glendale AZ)

A.) Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

B.) When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

C.) Always reset the computer whenever you adjust the TPS or clean/change any sensors. I just pull the battery lead for 10 minutes.

D.) The key is to adjust the TPS voltage and reset the computer whenever the idle screw is changed.

The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.

TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.

Adjusting the TPS fails to resolve the problem:
Check the black/white wire resistance. Connect one ohmmeter lead to the black/white wire on the TPS and one lead to the negative post on the battery. You should see less than 1.5 ohm, more than that indicates a problem. Always take resistance measurements with the circuit powered off.

Clean the 10 pin salt & pepper shaker connectors.
.

See http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=85 for more help[/b]
 

rebelboy194

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So I found out why I couldn't start the car. After trying and trying and trying, and installing a new TPS and adjusting it, and trying and trying and trying some more, I decided to try dumping a little fuel in it just to see(even thought the gauge is reading a quarter of a tank). And voila!! she fires right up like nothing was ever wrong. I took it about a mile and got some gas, and then came back and drove around the neighborhood for a good 20 minutes or so. Everything seems to be working great, now I just gotta plug the O2 sensors back in. Thanks for all the help everyone I really appreciate it.
 

Blown88GT

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Are you saying there was no gas in the tank? Only the gauge was reading wrong? You said the plugs were wet. It's time to pull the tank & look inside. Removing the tank is not that hard if empty. There's how-to's all over. It's easier with 2 people, 1 to work the lowering jack. I've seen guys do it on a lift all alone.

You can put a new gauge float in at the same time. It may have dissolved & is trying to get sucked into the pump. You might be surprised what's floating around inside. You can put a new sock on the pump, it's only like $5 at the parts store.

Didn't somebody tell you it was fuel? Oh, that was me!!
 

jrichker

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Fuel Quantity gauge troubleshooting 87-93 Mustangs



The red/yellow wire (power supply to gauge & sender) should have 12 volts when the ignition is in the start or Run position.

Troubleshooting the gauge and sender circuit:
Since the sender uses a variable resistor, sum the resistor values of 22 Ohms (empty value) & 145 Ohms (full value). That gets you 167, which you divide by 2: that gets you 83.5. So in theory, 83.5 ohms is 1/2 full. A trip to Radio Shack for the closest combination of resistors to make 83.5 ohms gets you one 68 Ohm (Catalog #: 271-1106) + one 15 Ohm (Catalog #: 271-1102) for a total of 83 Ohms at the cost of $2 plus tax. Wire the resistors in series to make a resistor pack and cover it with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape. The 83 Ohms is close enough to the 83.5 Ohm figure that it shouldn't matter. Disconnect the electrical connector shown in your for the tank sender unit. Connect one end of the resistor pack to the yellow/white wire on the body side fuel sender electrical connector and the other end of the resistor pack to ground. Make sure nothing is touching that isn't supposed to and turn the ignition switch to Run. If I am correct, the fuel gauge will read 1/2 full, or very close to it. If it does not, then the odds are that the gauge or anti-slosh unit are bad.

How and why the test works…
Most of the fuel gauge failures give a stuck on full or stuck on empty as a problem symptom. Using a resistor combination that mimics 1/2 tank allows you to decide if the gauge and anti-slosh module are the problem source.

If the gauge reads about 1/2 tank with the resistor combination, that points to the sender as being the culprit.

If the gauge reads full or empty with the resistor pack in place of the sender, then the gauge or anti-slosh module is at fault.

Fuel gauge sender testing and replacement
The next steps require dropping the fuel tank and removal of the fuel level sender. Here are some useful tips...

I have done the tank removal three times, and the main issues are getting the car up on jack stands and getting the gas out of the tank. DO NOT try to do this job without jack stands. Becoming a pancake is not part of the repair process.

Pumping out the old gas:
If the old pump still works, you can use it to pump the tank out.
1.) Separate the pressure line (the one with the Schrader valve on it) using the fuel line tools.
Look in the A/C repair section for the fuel line tools. They look like little plastic top hats. You will need the 1/2" & 5/8" ones. The hat shaped section goes on facing the large part of the coupling. Then you press hard on the brim until it forces the sleeve into the coupling and releases the spring. You may need someone to pull on the line while you press on the coupling.


Use a piece of garden hose to run from the pressure line to your bucket or gas can. Make sure it is as leak proof as you can make it. Fire and explosion are not part of the repair process...

2.) Jumper the fuel pump test point to ground.



Turn the ignition switch to the Run position. the fuel pump will pump the tank almost dry unless the battery runs down first.

Some 5 gallon paint pails lined with garbage bags are good to hold the gas. The garbage bags provide a clean liner for the pails and keep the loose trash out of the gas so you can reuse it. If you decide to use a siphon, a piece of 1/2" garden hose stuck down the filler neck will siphon all but a gallon or so of the gas.

Remove the filler neck bolts and put them in a zip bag. Disconnect the supply & return lines by removing the plastic clips from the metal tubing. If you damage the clips, you can get new ones form the auto part store for just a few dollars. I have used tie-wraps, but that is not the best choice. Then you remove the two 9/16" nuts that hold the T bolts to the straps. Put the nuts in the zip bag with the filler bolts. Pull the plastic shield down and away from the tank. Once the tank drops a little bit you can disconnect the wiring for the pump & fuel quantity sender.

The fuel gauge sender assembly comes out by removing a large metal ring that unscrews from the tank. There is a separate mounting/access plate for the fuel pump and fuel gage. You are supposed to use a brass punch to tap on the ring so that you don't make sparks. Look closely at the rubber O ring gasket when you remove the fuel gauge sender.
When you install the metal ring that holds the sender in place, watch out for the gasket O ring. Some RTV may be helpful if the ring is not in excellent condition.

The tank to filler pipe seal is a large rubber grommet. Inspect it for hardening, tears and damage. At $20 from the Ford dealer, it might be a good idea to replace it.

I used a floor jack to help lift the tank back in place. You may find that it is the only time you really can make good use of a helper.

All resistance measurements should be made with the power off.

Note from bstrd86 - 86 and older fuel tank sender units are 73 ohms empty, 8-12 ohms full.


The yellow/white wire will show a voltage that varies with the movement of the float on the sender unit. To test the sender, set your Ohmmeter or DVM on low Ohms. Then disconnect the sender and connect the Ohmmeter or DVM to the yellow/white and black wires from the sender unit. Move the float arm while watching the Ohmmeter or DVM. You should see the reading change from 22 to 145 ohms +/- 10%.

If the Ohmmeter or DVM resistance readings are way off, replace the tank sender unit.

Use extreme caution if you do the next step. Fumes from the gas tank can easily ignite and cause a fire or explosion.
With the sender unit out of the tank and connected to the body wiring harness, turn the ignition switch to the Run position. Move the float arm and the fuel gauge indicator should move. If you are very careful, you can use a pair of safety pins inserted in the connector for the yellow/white and black wires to measure the voltage as you move the float arm. The voltage will change, but I have no specs for what it should be.
Do not short the safety pins together or to ground. If you do, you may damage the anti-slosh module or crate a spark. A spark with the fuel tank open could cause a fire or an explosion.

If the voltage does not change and the tanks sender passed the resistance tests, the anti-slosh module or gauge is bad.

Anti-Slosh module pictures courtesy of Saleen0679



Copied from DrBob

I worked on an 88 Mustang today that had similar symptoms. Short version, I took the “anti slosh module” off of the back of the instrument cluster and replaced the electrolytic capacitor. Fixed it for $1.39 with a part from Radio Shack.

In an attempt to help other folks, here’s the long version.
Remove the “anti slosh module” located on the back of the instrument cluster. There was a single Torx screw holding mine to the cluster.

Find the electrolytic capacitor. It will be the largest, 2 wire component on the board. The capacitor may have a red or blue plastic wrapper on it. Mine was red.

The wrapper should have printing on it. Look for printing that looks something like this:
100uF+25V

The “100uF” tells you this is a 100 micro Farad capacitor. The “+25V” tells you the capacitor is rated for 25 Volts. Yours may be different. You may use a higher voltage part but don't use a lower rated voltage part. If you use a lower voltage part the capacitor might open later on down the road or it could be as bad as catching fire.

If you can’t find the printing you’ll need to remove the part. You have to anyway so nothing wasted. However pay close attention to the way the capacitor is oriented on the board.

One end of the capacitor will be bare metal with a wire sticking out. The other end should have some sort of insulation over it with a wire sticking out. The bare metal end is the negative end while the insulated end is the positive end. Pay attention to which end is connected to which hole on the board.

Get a replacement part. I got mine at Radio Shack, $1.39. Here’s the info:
100µF 35V 20% Axial-Lead Electrolytic Capacitor
Model: 272-1016 | Catalog #: 272-1016

Fuel tank sender unit:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/products/Mustang-Gas-And-Fuel-Tank-Sending-Unit

Be sure to get the lock ring and a new seal if you order the tank sender unit.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com...ng-Fuel-Pump-Sending-Unit-Lock-Ring-And-Seal\
 

Blown88GT

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There's another way to pump the gas out without breaking the lines. Remove the valve core from inside the Schrader port on the fuel return line. Tool required is a bicycle tool, Walmart & K-mart should have them. You don't need to spend $10-20 for the A/C version. Some have a handle like screwdriver, mine looks like the one shown.

Put some clear vinyl hose over the outside threads of the fitting on the return line & secure with hose clamp. Don't lose the core, it's not exactly the same as used on a bicycle tube. Bicycle tube valve seals with rubber, rubber not compatible with gas.

Schrader Valve Core Removal Tool
DSC05516.jpg


Stick the other end of the vinyl hose in a gas can & start the pump. Putting gas into a 5 gal bucket lined with plastic is completely unnecessary & unsafe. You can filter the gas when you pour it back into the tank.
 
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