Help me build a monster
- Thread starter mustangman70
- Start date
65up2d8
Member
Sounds like some great advice from our buds here, this forumn has been invaluable to me. I'm in the same boat getting ready to completely redo the entire powertrain, brakes and suspension so I'm also doing a ton of research to try get it right the first time and take everything into consideration. The 500-600hp is a heavy undertaking right off the bat.
My 2cents, do the 408 per your plan to get into the 450-500hp, learn to safely handle it and then see if you really want or need to take that next step to 600hp with the shot. Likely, you'll spend your budget doing the engine and everything else required so you don't break stuff and can run safe and more importantly, you won't be able to drive your dream machine for quite awhile during this undertaking and even longer to prepare the car correctly for 600hp.
Suspension: Since I'm not sure where you are now, subframe connectors, export brace, monte carlo bar, oversize front sway, rear sway? and like someone else mentioned - Caltracs or Slide-links for sure. I don't see any reason to hack up your floor to customized the frame. Of course, you might have to if you go the 600hp route where your pretty much turning your driver into a race car, 4pt cage, extra wide tires, ect. TCP makes a subframe center connector kit that bolts into the TCP subframes and will do a great job of making the car more rigid as it ties in the sides to prevent twisting.
Might as well do 4 wheel disks, 13" in front (17" wheel min.) and 12" in the back while your at it. Allow approx $2500 for tranny- 5 speed or AOD to handle the extra ponies. 3-3.5" dia aluminum driveline and definately a 9" trac-loc (3.55's, 3.73 or 4.11?) differential to eliminate any questions about stretching the limits of an 8".
Do it right and be safe, it just takes time and $$$ but will be rewarding and a blast.
My 2cents, do the 408 per your plan to get into the 450-500hp, learn to safely handle it and then see if you really want or need to take that next step to 600hp with the shot. Likely, you'll spend your budget doing the engine and everything else required so you don't break stuff and can run safe and more importantly, you won't be able to drive your dream machine for quite awhile during this undertaking and even longer to prepare the car correctly for 600hp.
Suspension: Since I'm not sure where you are now, subframe connectors, export brace, monte carlo bar, oversize front sway, rear sway? and like someone else mentioned - Caltracs or Slide-links for sure. I don't see any reason to hack up your floor to customized the frame. Of course, you might have to if you go the 600hp route where your pretty much turning your driver into a race car, 4pt cage, extra wide tires, ect. TCP makes a subframe center connector kit that bolts into the TCP subframes and will do a great job of making the car more rigid as it ties in the sides to prevent twisting.
Might as well do 4 wheel disks, 13" in front (17" wheel min.) and 12" in the back while your at it. Allow approx $2500 for tranny- 5 speed or AOD to handle the extra ponies. 3-3.5" dia aluminum driveline and definately a 9" trac-loc (3.55's, 3.73 or 4.11?) differential to eliminate any questions about stretching the limits of an 8".
Do it right and be safe, it just takes time and $$$ but will be rewarding and a blast.
LMan
Founding Member
70vert
New Member
It's been explained, but frame rail running through floor
You're basically linking the front and rear frame rails without really dipping down to do it, just running straight through the floor with boxed steel close to or equal to frame rail gauge. I think it is a drag racer trick, and the first place I heard it was from Hack on this forum. I wouldn't do it for aesthetic reasons - I just don't want a hump in the middle of the passenger seat floor, I think that's where it ends up.
The roll cage was the maximum part of it, as far as frame stiffening. As far as everything else, I think maximum is a lot more subjective, but I think there is a little more consensus on the general steps up to a stiffer frame . . .
You're basically linking the front and rear frame rails without really dipping down to do it, just running straight through the floor with boxed steel close to or equal to frame rail gauge. I think it is a drag racer trick, and the first place I heard it was from Hack on this forum. I wouldn't do it for aesthetic reasons - I just don't want a hump in the middle of the passenger seat floor, I think that's where it ends up.
The roll cage was the maximum part of it, as far as frame stiffening. As far as everything else, I think maximum is a lot more subjective, but I think there is a little more consensus on the general steps up to a stiffer frame . . .
gzminiz said:
jerry S
New Member
180 Out said:
Unless your operating costs on an hourly basis exceed any additonal revenues gained by the extra hours. Suppose you have a grocery store that is losing money. You decide to open 24 hours to capture additonal sales but the added revenue is exceeded by your additional labor, electricity, and depreciation costs. Should you keep it up? The answer is yes if you are one of those guys who loses money on every sale but thinks he can make it up with volume.
I think common subframe connectors will work just as well as running new frame rails through the passenger compartment, and they're a lot easier to install (and also to find readymade -- I recommend Maier Racing because theirs tuck in so well). A 6 pt roll cage plus frame connectors is twice as good. Maier put both on my kids' '65 fb, and now when I use a floor jack in the factory locations notched into the rocker panel pinch weld, I can't jack up just one wheel; both the front and the rear come off the ground at the same time.
wow guys thanks for the great advice this is helping alot, the car is a pretty solid car and i really wouldent want to twist it up, i allready have the montecarlo bar and upgraded export brace,,, but i would imagine just some sub frame connectors and disks up front should be fine for what i want 
iskwezm
10 Year Member
the monte carlo bar and the export brace do nothing for body twist and front disc only,I personally dont think the car will handle the power you hope to have.I have what you have and since my new engine,im getting cracks in the new paint because the body twist.
I really think a 351(not stoked) is plenty.A guy around here had the FRP 351 385 HP and it ran 12.20's all day and since the head change runs 11's N/A
I really think a 351(not stoked) is plenty.A guy around here had the FRP 351 385 HP and it ran 12.20's all day and since the head change runs 11's N/A
69Rcode_Mach1
Active Member
iskwezm said:
I agree, a 351 should be all you would need. If you wanted stroker you should opt for the torque not go even more extreme on the stroker. It will be plenty of fun and really kick you in the pants. 450hp is a lot of power and not many people realize that. If you go with the kind of power you want that car will get damaged, and you won't be able to enjoy it as much because your tailside will be all over the street every time you try to lay into it. Even my combo is a bit extreme, the thing will have to go to 7000-7500rpms. That is my preference, but it is still not on the limit of damaging the chassis, and I will be stiffening it up. Wait till you have more money, another car, a nice block, and do it properly. The block will be a ticking timebomb, and you will twist the hell out of that car. Talk to 10secgoal he is trying to get a new block because he knows his won't last, and also ask him about all the work he has done to stiffen the car. He has been posting about it throughout this thread.
70vert
New Member
Now that's a testimonial I can believe.
now THAT's stiff.
180, I live near Maier too, what were their shop rates like?
I'm not sure about the "subframes as good as rails through the floor" thing. With the rails, you are spreading stress throughout the floor pan, and hopefully spreading the stress out to the rocker panels. There has to be some benefit to tying into the floor pans too - whether it's worth the effort is debatable, of course. That's also the idea behind the Mustangs Plus Chassis Strengthening Kit, at least:
http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MPFMP&Product_Code=04202&Category_Code=chassis_strengthening_kit
now THAT's stiff.
180, I live near Maier too, what were their shop rates like?I'm not sure about the "subframes as good as rails through the floor" thing. With the rails, you are spreading stress throughout the floor pan, and hopefully spreading the stress out to the rocker panels. There has to be some benefit to tying into the floor pans too - whether it's worth the effort is debatable, of course. That's also the idea behind the Mustangs Plus Chassis Strengthening Kit, at least:
http://www.mustangsplus.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MPFMP&Product_Code=04202&Category_Code=chassis_strengthening_kit
180 Out said:
iskwezm said:
Where exactly is it cracking ? I did have a buddy that had 396 with well over 500 hp in a 69 Chevelle. He also had a cage, but the bodyman still cursed the day he was born when it came to the bodywork on the roof. I haven't seen any problems in my car as of yet. Not even cracking in the leading of the corner panels. You know where. Right behind the drip rails where they all crack.
I can't honestly tell you if the way I did it is any better than common methods. I just didn't like the looks of the market when I went to buy. I couldn't see how a peice of steel with tabs at the end could be as strong as putting three peices of boxed steel side by side.
iskwezm
10 Year Member
i dont have subframes,i need to figure out how to get around my side exhaust,but i have a 4pt and the reast of the bolt ons.Its cracking at the a pillar at the top of the windshield ,the b pillar top by the vents and behind the 1/4 vents(on a FB) and this is without any sticky tires and "0" passes.10secgoal said:
iskwezm
10 Year Member
I guss all the words of what a 408 will do meant nothingmustangman70 said:
J/k,i know your young and you want it all,yes there is machining on the block,the rotating assembly will be $$$$ and dont get cheap on the rods or pistons,other wise just stick with a 302
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