Fox Help me decide turbo or supercharger

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

I’m completely new to boost... so I was going to make a deal on a Vortech that turned out to have a slight wobble so that was a definite no! Now I’m looking at the on3 turbo kit. I know there’s fab required and that doesn’t scare me since I have the tools and skills. My only issues with a turbo is how crowded it makes the bay. SC look so clean. On the other hand the turbo has a wider range of available boost. Turbo cost is less and new and a new sc looks to be double. I know you guys who have sc seem happy. Who’s used the on3 kit and what are your thoughts.
My car is a stock block 5.0 edelbrock intake, E cam, ported e7, 47# injectors and running on MSPNP2

a91what · Jul 22, 2019

There are a few guys running the On3 kit, I will let them chime in on the hardware... I will say that you may need a larger fuel pump depending on how far you want to turn the power up.
I got to ride in a On3 car that i tuned, his combo was similar except for gt40x heads. was damned scary at 12psi on the back roads, things always seem sketchier when your not driving.

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

a91what said:
There are a few guys running the On3 kit, I will let them chime in on the hardware... I will say that you may need a larger fuel pump depending on how far you want to turn the power up.
I got to ride in a On3 car that i tuned, his combo was similar except for gt40x heads. was damned scary at 12psi on the back roads, things always seem sketchier when your not driving.

Forgot to list an Aeromotive 340l pump. I do think I have all the supporting hardware to make this work. I would probably stay conservative at around 7psi or so.

General karthief · Jul 22, 2019

KZGUNS said:
Forgot to list an Aeromotive 340l pump. I do think I have all the supporting hardware to make this work. I would probably stay conservative at around 7psi or so.

Yeah, for a minute!

a91what · Jul 22, 2019

7psi will get boring fast lol.... you could do an input switch to the ecu with a EBC and when the switch is on the boost increases to whatever you have it tuned to.

hoopty5.0 · Jul 22, 2019

If I had to do it over again, I'd put a blower on. Turbo systems produce a lot more heat since there are more hot parts under the hood, everything is cramped, and running the exhaust is always a pain.

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

a91what said:
7psi will get boring fast lol.... you could do an input switch to the ecu with a EBC and when the switch is on the boost increases to whatever you have it tuned to.

You’re right! Need more power! Lol I figured I would want more but I would stay on the lower side till I’m more comfortable with it all.

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

hoopty5.0 said:
If I had to do it over again, I'd put a blower on. Turbo systems produce a lot more heat since there are more hot parts under the hood, everything is cramped, and running the exhaust is always a pain.

Ya those are my major concerns. I would do as much as I can to mitigate the heat by wrapping everything.

hoopty5.0 · Jul 22, 2019

KZGUNS said:
Ya those are my major concerns. I would do as much as I can to mitigate the heat by wrapping everything.

My hot side is wrapped.

To go into more detail, it's not like it gets ridiculously hot in there, but it's a noticeable difference. There are downsides to wrapping as well. They absorb oil like a sponge which is a fire hazard and the wrap is made out of fiberglass. so anytime you rub against it, it itches.

I don't hate the turbo system, in fact, I'm quietly planning my next project for another car that doesn't exist (yet) with another turbo. It's just a different animal.

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

hoopty5.0 said:
My hot side is wrapped.

To go into more detail, it's not like it gets ridiculously hot in there, but it's a noticeable difference. There are downsides to wrapping as well. They absorb oil like a sponge which is a fire hazard and the wrap is made out of fiberglass. so anytime you rub against it, it itches.

I don't hate the turbo system, in fact, I'm quietly planning my next project for another car that doesn't exist (yet) with another turbo. It's just a different animal.

I hear ya! I’m starting to lean more towards turbo for the simple fact that I can crank up the boost easier than a sc but cluttering the bay does annoy me. This winter I’m pulling the motor to clean up the bay and repaint it. I’d like to have whatever I’m using up and running before so I’m not ruining my work fitting everything. I know I’ll want more boost than I’m starting with eventually.

a91what · Jul 22, 2019

Well I am selling a SC setup.... PM for details its a custom deal 12psi

KZGUNS · Jul 22, 2019

a91what said:
Well I am selling a SC setup.... PM for details its a custom deal 12psi

PM sent....

FastDriver · Jul 22, 2019

Easy question. Turbocharger! Next!

(I am so good at giving advice on the interwebz :-D.) Where's a pat-myself-on-the-back emoji when I need one?

FastDriver · Jul 22, 2019

With an HP kit in the black car, and the custom one in the blue car, the plugs are even more accessible than when it was stock.

Ignore the electrical wires, hoses, and braided fuel lines and just look at the turbo piping: It really isn't in the way, ever:

I can see how you might not want to do that to your fender, but I'm very happy with the extra space it provides, and the fact that the turbo is not right on top of the alternator.

Now, my old incon kit made changing plugs or wires a nightmare. No problems anywhere else in the engine bay, though.This doesn't do it justice, but that's under the exhaust manifold on each side. Good luck getting anything done on the plugs/wires:

FastDriver · Jul 22, 2019

In the blue car, obviously a much sexier engine bay with the wires and coil tucked, no A/C lines, firewall gadgets, washer fluid, and no excess wiring from the computer, the turbo I chose for the black car is a lot bigger on the hot side. This smaller size turbine (same compressor) required MUCH less fender cutting -- just for the filter, but the alternator needed to be relocated and since nothing is on that side of the engine, a standard rotation pump or electric was required. Moving alternator and keeping power steering required removal of a/c:

An issue on this kit with how close it is to the power steering low pressure line:

I burned up the hose and dumped PS fluid and a cloud of smoke while cruising with some paganis during the biggest car week in the country in Monterey, last August. The only trouble I've ever had with the car. So embarrassing. I wrapped the header in a heat-shield product that really works well and have had no issues, since:

Steel1 · Jul 22, 2019

In the past I've had multiple different s/c set-ups on my 93GT and all performed great.
That being said, with supercharging you are getting some parasitic loss from the crank turning the belt/pulley
also creating some load on the crank snout.
Turbos are basically making free power and the aftermarket technology seems like its caught up with supercharging.

Black1987 · Jul 22, 2019

I guess it depends

First I love turbo 5.0s and they can easily make stupid power when compared to an S/C set up.

However, if you like melting wires, blowing head gaskets/motors and stupid power off the turn of a knob....turbo all the way.

If you want tried and true very linear no surprise power look no more than the S/C. I would vote the Paxton Sci over the vortech as Vortech sci is 6 rib and Paxton Novi 1220
Is 8 rib...given you will change this out for more boost unless you run a power pipe/crank pulley to achieve 7 psi

Cost comparison with ON3 vs SCi units as the baseline are close. Now when you start looking at other kits thats were things can divide.

Either turbo or the S/C will start the itch that leads to rash which causes the wick to turn up that inevitably will reach the weak point of the block.

That being said either will get you to block splitting power. Have fun.

Also Vortech is 10% right now I think on LMR. You just missed the 20% off ON3 for the 4th. Keep your eyes open for those sales. Best of luck

FastDriver · Jul 22, 2019

Never blown a headgasket or killed a wire, here. I would say that dart builds to a stock block combo isn't a fair comparison, but it was the same deal with the incon twin setup on the stock block. In fact, on that setup, I raised boost, back ignition off and I'm guessing it went lean, but it bent a stock rod, and did not blow the HGs, which were just standard felpros. I've had boots get a little melty without failing, but not since I moved to Accel 9000 wires. Just gotta do it right and tune it right. I don't disagree with your other comments, and I'd frankly rather have a quality SC kit than an On3, but I recognize my own bias. Other kits with quality parts from start to finish will make the turbo more expensive than an SC.

I think it's kinda crazy that people still expect $3k for these SC kits used.

TOOLOW91 · Jul 23, 2019

Say no to on3 kit, by the time you buy a good waste Gate , bov decent turbo and fix the cross over when it cracks or the headers you could’ve bought a b@g kit .

Pulley swap on my Vortech takes 5 -10 min . You aren’t going to be adjusting boost levels enough to make that your make or break on what power adder you buy . Vortech can be installed esp a v3 kit in a Saturday afternoon less the supporting stuff like injectors and pump .
The power is linear and with rpm they just keep on pulling . Every system has its pros and cons and i feel the blower stuff is way more reliable . Just my .02

KZGUNS · Jul 23, 2019

Thanks guys! I’ve made a deal on a very awesome and unique blower.

Stay tuned....

Fox Help me decide turbo or supercharger

I can swing up to 11”

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I can swing up to 11”

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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mechanicus terribilis

I can swing up to 11”

I can swing up to 11”

mechanicus terribilis

I can swing up to 11”

SendMeUrDataLog

I can swing up to 11”

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I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

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my wife Bedazzled my input shaft

I was uncomfortably high & wearing a helmet

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I can swing up to 11”

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