Fox Help - Trying To Get Ready For Power Tour

GUGS · May 16, 2016

First post, pulled a ton of info here, hoping someone may be able to assist:
Cranks - No start condition. I've used all the flowcharts I can find and still no go.
Here is where it currently stands:
90 hatch, 347 with afrs, N/A, aftermarket intake, stock fuel system, comp valve train, 5 speed car

Combo has been together for about 6 years and has been bullet proof, until last saturday. Here is what works:

FP - right at 39lbs and 43-45 while cranking
TPS - .96 V closed almost 5v WOT
Spark - At coil, at plugs, all of them
Replaced TFI and distributor
ECU seems to start up and go through checks
Compression approx 150lbs on all cylinders
Plugs wet with fuel
No fire with starting fluid trick
ECC relay is firing, can feel by hand and fuel system primes
Fuel pump relay primes and shuts off like normal
tried 1/4 throttle, full throttle, sometimes back fire as though timing is off

Here is what happened - 2nd gear about 25 miles an hour, coughed and then quit. Immediately up trying to restart, motor sounded as though it was fighting timing( as though 180*out etc.)
My immediate thought - oh , chewed the dist gear. Popped off cap and confirmed no slack and rotated while cranking motor.

My dad and I are tying to make the power tour for first time. Curise works and I just charged AC - 37* - I am so ready to go then it quit.

Please help me not take the diesel truck instead on the power tour

Boosted92LX · May 16, 2016

Did you check codes?

GUGS · May 16, 2016

I did with a handheld scanner but did not indicate any codes. Its really weird, have fuel, have fire, no running which I desire(sorry metallica)

Only thing I can think of is an ignition switch not staying in a run condition? Although it seems to function correctly. Going to confirm the TDC and dist in the morning. Aftermarket balancer which has three sets of timing marks for various combinations. However, still does not explain it quitting after 6 years and no issues whatsoever...I'm stumped.

Not a Newb, Run 800HP na motor in the boat, have run blower motors, turbo motors. Just not as versed in the function of this vehicle or its functional architecture.

Thx in advance!

Boosted92LX · May 16, 2016

You said you replaced the distributor? Sounds like the pip might have gone bad..

Boosted92LX · May 16, 2016

I can tell you there are two red wires on the tfi plug. They go to the ignition switch. The top gets a full 12v on start only, then drops. The bottom red wire I believe is supposed to be constant 12v. Anything else indicates a bad ignition switch.

GUGS · May 16, 2016

PIP is a possibility. I thought if the plugs showed fuel then it was OK?

This is a two owner car so I don't think the ign switch has ever been changed, when inspected it wiggled some so I'll swap it out with a FoMoCO part while I have it apart

Boosted92LX · May 16, 2016

GUGS said:
PIP is a possibility. I thought if the plugs showed fuel then it was OK?

This is a two owner car so I don't think the ign switch has ever been changed, when inspected it wiggled some so I'll swap it out with a FoMoCO part while I have it apart

Pretty sure the pip tells the ecu when to fire the injector. Key word: when.

Get a volt meter and check voltage at those two red wires on the tfi plug.. That should tell you if your switch went bad.

revvv · May 16, 2016

I hope you make the tour. I'm not sure when it is this year, but I have always wanted to make at least one leg of it.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

GUGS · May 16, 2016

We've been talking about it for 20 years. Executive decision - F**K it, we're goin. My dad and I are doing the trip together, about 3500 miles in June.

Love to take mustang, but gotta get this solved first

LILCBRA · May 17, 2016

This is a long shot, but when was the distributor replaced? I've been doing a little searching about this phenomenon you've got going on and come across a Cobra forum that says that some others have had a similar issue - like the distributor roll pin sheared causing the gear to spin, which is kind of what sounds like you have going on. (I highly doubt that your gear spun at all.) But later in the discussion someone chimed in stating the depth of the gear on the distributor shaft. The spec of the depth of the gear is supposed to be around 4.000 (+/-.004 or so) from the collar, but some have experienced a build where the gear has been installed at a 3.990 depth so as to not bind. When the gears bind in these posts, the distributor hold down was also suspect and not doing it's intended job. In this case, the distributor was bottoming out on the oil pump drive shaft. They said that someone had come with a solution to shim the distributor collar about .030 so the hold down had something to bite and apply pressure to the distributor to hold it in place while still allowing room for the drive shaft. Anyway, like I said, it's a long shot. But here is a link to the discussion. I haven't gone through the whole thing, but once I hit the long post (about the seventh one....), it seemed like a feasible possibility given your circumstances. Otherwise, it has me scratching my head as well! Good luck!!

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/263179-sheared-roll-pin-distributor-gear.html

GUGS · May 17, 2016

Ok, Think I solved it, not good

GUGS · May 17, 2016

Pulled all plugs and ran compression test again, 150Lbs all cylinders
Then tried to come up on TDC, the rotor was in different locations relative to where the compression stroke is on number 1. Not just 0* and 180* but varied..uh oh..
Pulled the dist and set it back to TDC and confirmed piston was up etc.
Tried to fire, almost but then as it cranked, I could hear the timing change until it was fighting the compression in different cylinders...
Then pulled dist cap and could watch the rotor have a hiccup in rotation that moved around the clock position...
So, I think the cam gear lost a tooth, I'll take the bore scope and take a closer look.

Looks like the truck will be making the Power Tour - With the Banks on 5 it'll run 14.40s in a 8K pound truck, not too bad.

Bullitt347 · May 17, 2016

Or, there is so much slack in the timing chain that the chain is jumping the crank gear.

Boosted92LX · May 17, 2016

Bullitt347 said:
Or, there is so much slack in the timing chain that the chain is jumping the crank gear.

Yeah, but then the cam would get out of time and it wouldn't run at all. Sounds like he sheared the roll pin on the dist gear to me.

GUGS · May 17, 2016

True - Won't know till I tear it down. It has 7K Miles and I always run a double roller chain, never had one jump but a failure or broken tooth etc. is a possibility. If you could see the video of the rotor turning, you would see the motion in the rotor.

If it did jump a tooth, would I not see a change or indication in an errant compression test? I'm assuming cam and crank are in alignment since the compression test yielded a 4% difference in the cylinder balance?

GUGS · May 17, 2016

Roll pin on both the old and new distributor are not sheared. I do see damage on the dist gear on the new replaced dist when I pulled it this morning. This has not run but turned over a few hundred times while trouble shooting

Boosted92LX · May 17, 2016

GUGS said:
Roll pin on both the old and new distributor are not sheared. I do see damage on the dist gear on the new replaced dist when I pulled it this morning. This has not run but turned over a few hundred times while trouble shooting

I had an oil pump lock up once...In the process of twisting the drive rod, the cam gear chipped and it ate distributor gears. Better check your oil pressure/driverod/oil pump if you have a chipped cam gear.

Fox Help - Trying To Get Ready For Power Tour

GUGS

New Member

GUGS

New Member

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

GUGS

New Member

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

GUGS

New Member

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

revvv

Member

GUGS

New Member

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

GUGS

New Member

GUGS

New Member

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

GUGS

New Member

GUGS

New Member

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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Fox Help - Trying To Get Ready For Power Tour

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

New Member

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

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I have been doing it wrong this whole time

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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