ok i just built my 302 and put it into the car and im having a few probloms the car is idling at a very high1800-2000rpms and my headers are glowing red after a few min what could cause this. The motor is a stock lower with trick flow 185 heads and b cam crain1.6 rockers bbk long tube headers and offroad xpipe trick flow track heat upper 65mm throttlebody 70 mm spacer 30 lb mass ans injectors any thoughts
Engine High Idle And Glowing Red Headers
- Thread starter Timbo80
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What piece of hardware/software are you using that is allowing you to run those 30 lb injectors?
Have you looked for leaks in the intake tract? Any open ports, broken lines, incorrectly routed lines?
Did you remember to seal the gap between the aftermarket heads and the block deck?
Do you have any way at all to measure air fuel ratio?
What codes are spitting out?
Have you looked for leaks in the intake tract? Any open ports, broken lines, incorrectly routed lines?
Did you remember to seal the gap between the aftermarket heads and the block deck?
Do you have any way at all to measure air fuel ratio?
What codes are spitting out?
No codes don't have a way to check air/fuel as for 30 lb injectors only thing I have is mass air for 30 lb have been checking all over for vacuum leaks and yes I've close the gap on the block deck . I'm not sure only in proper routing other vacuum lines it was a four-cylinder car and I converted it to a VA so I do not have all the vacuums but most everything I have found has been either plugged off our connecting
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
I agree, you are running way lean. You should have codes for that.
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I've check the timing 3 times and it's good I'm set at 10 Dg right now with the spout out still have 2000 idel and red hot headers about 3 min of running can't find any leakes
No code 11 (two flashes when the computer dumps the codes)? A perfectly functioning system will always get a code 11, it is the everything is OK code. The 11 code is computer passed its internal self test.
If you don't get an 11, you have computer or wiring problems.
Please check and repost.
Finding vacuum leaks
Revised 04-Aug-2011 to add pintle cap, PCV grommet & power brake check valve grommet to checklist.
There is no easy way to find vacuum leaks. It is a time consuming job that requires close inspection of each and every hose and connection.
Small vacuum leaks may not show much change using a vacuum gauge. The range of "good readings" varies so much from engine to engine that it may be difficult to detect small leaks. The engine in my first Mustang pulled about 16.5" of vacuum at 650-725 RPM, which I consider rather low. It was a mass market remanufactured rebuild, so no telling what kind of camshaft it had. Average readings seem to run 16"-18" inches at idle and 18"-21" at 1000 RPM. The only sure comparison is a reading taken when your car was performing at its best through all the RPM ranges and what it is doing now. Use one of the spare ports on the vacuum tree that is mounted on the firewall near the windshield wiper motor.
Use a squirt can of motor oil to squirt around the mating surfaces of the manifold & TB. The oil will be sucked into the leaking area and the engine will change speed. Avoid using flammable substitutes for the oil such as starting fluid, propane or throttle body cleaner. Fire is an excellent hair removal agent, and no eyebrows is not cool...
The vacuum line plumbing is old and brittle on many of these cars, so replacing the lines with new hose is a good plan. The common 1/8” and ¼” vacuum hose works well and isn’t expensive.
The PCV grommet and the power brake booster check valve grommet are two places that often get overlooked when checking for vacuum leaks. The rubber grommets get hard and lose their ability to seal properly. The PVC grommet is difficult to see if it is correctly seated and fitting snugly.
Fuel injector O rings can get old and hard. When they do, they are prone to leaking once the engine warms up. This can be difficult to troubleshoot, since it is almost impossible to get to the injectors to squirt oil into the fuel injector mounting bosses. If the plastic caps on the fuel injectors (pintle caps) are missing, the O rings will slide off the injectors and fall into the intake manifold.
Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:
http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/
Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.
Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...
Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.
Determining if you have a leak due to a slipped intake gasket as shown above. This test is only good if you can get the engine to run somewhere in the 1000-1700 RPM range
If your valve cover oil filler & PVC systems are still in the original configuration, try this:
Cap or plug the hose from the intake manifold to the PVC valve with a bolt.
Cap or plug the PVC valve with a piece of hose with a plug or bolt in it.
At that point the only vent for the crankcase is the tube from the oil filler neck to the throttle body.
Disconnect the tube that runs from the oil filler neck to the throttle body. Make sure the oil filler cap is on securely. Start the engine and put your thumb over the end of the tube that comes from the oil filler cap. If you feel suction, there is a leak. Another thing to do is to extend the tubing from the filler neck so that there is enough to stick the end in a jar or cup filled with motor oil. If it sucks up the oil, you definitely have a leak at the underside of intake manifold.
This isn't necessarily the definitive test, but it is the best thing I could come up with on short notice. If there is a lot of blowby, this obviously won't be of much help.
See the picture below to see the breather tube where in connects to the throttle body. It is close to the TPS and runs over the top of the IAC.
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.
Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif
Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif
Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif
Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg
HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif
TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif
Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif
If you don't get an 11, you have computer or wiring problems.
Please check and repost.
Finding vacuum leaks
Revised 04-Aug-2011 to add pintle cap, PCV grommet & power brake check valve grommet to checklist.
There is no easy way to find vacuum leaks. It is a time consuming job that requires close inspection of each and every hose and connection.
Small vacuum leaks may not show much change using a vacuum gauge. The range of "good readings" varies so much from engine to engine that it may be difficult to detect small leaks. The engine in my first Mustang pulled about 16.5" of vacuum at 650-725 RPM, which I consider rather low. It was a mass market remanufactured rebuild, so no telling what kind of camshaft it had. Average readings seem to run 16"-18" inches at idle and 18"-21" at 1000 RPM. The only sure comparison is a reading taken when your car was performing at its best through all the RPM ranges and what it is doing now. Use one of the spare ports on the vacuum tree that is mounted on the firewall near the windshield wiper motor.
Use a squirt can of motor oil to squirt around the mating surfaces of the manifold & TB. The oil will be sucked into the leaking area and the engine will change speed. Avoid using flammable substitutes for the oil such as starting fluid, propane or throttle body cleaner. Fire is an excellent hair removal agent, and no eyebrows is not cool...
The vacuum line plumbing is old and brittle on many of these cars, so replacing the lines with new hose is a good plan. The common 1/8” and ¼” vacuum hose works well and isn’t expensive.
The PCV grommet and the power brake booster check valve grommet are two places that often get overlooked when checking for vacuum leaks. The rubber grommets get hard and lose their ability to seal properly. The PVC grommet is difficult to see if it is correctly seated and fitting snugly.
Fuel injector O rings can get old and hard. When they do, they are prone to leaking once the engine warms up. This can be difficult to troubleshoot, since it is almost impossible to get to the injectors to squirt oil into the fuel injector mounting bosses. If the plastic caps on the fuel injectors (pintle caps) are missing, the O rings will slide off the injectors and fall into the intake manifold.
Fuel injector seal kits with 2 O rings and a pintle cap (Borg-Warner P/N 274081) are available at Pep Boys auto parts. Cost is about $3-$4 per kit. The following are listed at the Borg-Warner site ( http://www.borg-warner.com ) as being resellers of Borg-Warner parts:
http://www.partsplus.com/ or http://www.autovalue.com/ or http://www.pepboys.com/ or http://www.federatedautoparts.com/
Most of the links above have store locators for find a store in your area.
Use motor oil on the O rings when you re-assemble them & everything will slide into place. The gasoline will wash away any excess oil that gets in the wrong places and it will burn up in the combustion chamber. Heat the pintle caps in boiling water to soften them to make them easier to install.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...
Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. I don't care what you spray with, you won't find the leak when it is sucking air from the lifter valley. It simply isn't possible to spray anything in there with the lower manifold bolted in place.
Determining if you have a leak due to a slipped intake gasket as shown above. This test is only good if you can get the engine to run somewhere in the 1000-1700 RPM range
If your valve cover oil filler & PVC systems are still in the original configuration, try this:
Cap or plug the hose from the intake manifold to the PVC valve with a bolt.
Cap or plug the PVC valve with a piece of hose with a plug or bolt in it.
At that point the only vent for the crankcase is the tube from the oil filler neck to the throttle body.
Disconnect the tube that runs from the oil filler neck to the throttle body. Make sure the oil filler cap is on securely. Start the engine and put your thumb over the end of the tube that comes from the oil filler cap. If you feel suction, there is a leak. Another thing to do is to extend the tubing from the filler neck so that there is enough to stick the end in a jar or cup filled with motor oil. If it sucks up the oil, you definitely have a leak at the underside of intake manifold.
This isn't necessarily the definitive test, but it is the best thing I could come up with on short notice. If there is a lot of blowby, this obviously won't be of much help.
See the picture below to see the breather tube where in connects to the throttle body. It is close to the TPS and runs over the top of the IAC.
See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/ Everyone should bookmark this site.
Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif
Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif
Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif
Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg
HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif
TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif
Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif
- Mar 2, 2015
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Go and get a cheap air fuel ratio gauge from some irrelevant parts store. Glowing red headers means lean. Intake gaskets can slip when installing and cause an internal vacuum leak from the lifter valley.
High idle and red headers mean lean. What fuel pressure are you running ?
High idle and red headers mean lean. What fuel pressure are you running ?
Even if it was clocked far enough over that he couldn't get enough adjustment out of the distributor to properly dial in the timing it wouldn't run so lean that the headers would get that hot.. I'm betting on a slipped intake gasket that's sucking air from the lifter valley.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
no such thing. If you can dial in the distributor to get it timed, you are good.
The high idle could certainly be a vacuum leak, but don't discount the timing.
I made the mistake of letting my brother instal the distributor in my new engine, right before start up. He turned the distributor to the stock location and fired it up and it would hardly run. The timing was so retarded that my headers glowed (bunting off the first 6" of the ceramic coating from the flange of my brand new BBK long tubes). I was super happy about that.
I restabbed the distributor myself and it ran just fine.
I made the mistake of letting my brother instal the distributor in my new engine, right before start up. He turned the distributor to the stock location and fired it up and it would hardly run. The timing was so retarded that my headers glowed (bunting off the first 6" of the ceramic coating from the flange of my brand new BBK long tubes). I was super happy about that.
I restabbed the distributor myself and it ran just fine.
John Bzstang
Member
Hello Timbo80 Did you ever figure out the issue I am having almost the same exact problem and have checked almost everything except starting from scratch with my timing can you please let me know thanks
Not so. When the fool young Ford mechanic sets the timing for After tdc, the headers and cats get really hot and runs poorly. Both issues went away when I turned the distributor to the right place. Paying for some help when moving seemed like a good idea at the time.
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