How Low Do You Go?

[Torinalth]

sean hyland has no idea about suspension if he states 1.5 as when the geometry changes, look at his site and what he sells... its all steeda for suspension, i'm more willing to trust people that MAKE suspension, over those that just sell others. on a side note, i dont want to take anything away from steeda... they are fairly solid for suspension honestly, but they are eclipsed for top end performance by griggs and MM.

carrol shelby though he is a great guy and good thinker, is old school. cutting springs, or torching them was "the thing", however now the springs are wound/designed differently, and now this method causes issues... weather you realize it or not.

every set of LCAs you can afford has poly on both ends ehh? well, then its time to start saving, buying used, or giving up. not trying to ge a prick about it, but honestly, if you are even talking about racing then you should know you get what you pay for.

AGX is not the best, but not the worst.... if it were me i'd be buying either koni, tokico Dpsec, or repurchasing my bilsteins.... but i cant say anything really poor about AGX, just that they are midrange for a performance shock and would not be my personal choice, but would not bother replacing them if you already have them.

you seem to be getting frustrated with our comments. well, thats your choice. most of us have done our research, spent the money (which it seems you dont have available), and installed the parts we recommend. so, if you want to do whatever you want, fine by us. however ignore our advice at your own risk. we dont sell products (most of us), and will not see a dime, or discount for giving you suggestions, so we gain nothing by giving you misguided, or bias advice. you really need to lay down how much you can spend, and what you want it to do. from what it sounds, you just wont have the cash for the right pieces for the job you seem to want to do... and that requires sacrafice, either sacraficing performance, or your wallet.

honestly, reading back through everything there really isnt much good tech in this thread, which is kinda disapointing, especially since both Tom and San dropped in. bottom line, you are only mildly improving your situation by cutting the springs. if you need to get lowered and keep it cheap, FRPP C springs are what you want. they drop about 1.5 and are not compromised.

just something to note... HR makes their Race springs. the race springs are not that ehavy of a drop, about 1"-1.25" or about 3/4" with new isolators. reason i bring this up is to point out how little of a drop HR makes their "race" springs. you might be thinking "yeah, HR is stupid, give me a good example" well... the HR race spring is the single suggested spring for use by Maximum motorsports.... now just for a follow up, just take a poll on who everyone thinks is the best mustang suspension company... lower is not always better.

Torinalth

 

[RoadconeTuning]

sean hyland has no idea about suspension if he states 1.5 as when the geometry changes, look at his site and what he sells... its all steeda for suspension, i'm more willing to trust people that MAKE suspension, over those that just sell others. on a side note, i dont want to take anything away from steeda... they are fairly solid for suspension honestly, but they are eclipsed for top end performance by griggs and MM.

carrol shelby though he is a great guy and good thinker, is old school. cutting springs, or torching them was "the thing", however now the springs are wound/designed differently, and now this method causes issues... weather you realize it or not.

every set of LCAs you can afford has poly on both ends ehh? well, then its time to start saving, buying used, or giving up. not trying to ge a prick about it, but honestly, if you are even talking about racing then you should know you get what you pay for.

AGX is not the best, but not the worst.... if it were me i'd be buying either koni, tokico Dpsec, or repurchasing my bilsteins.... but i cant say anything really poor about AGX, just that they are midrange for a performance shock and would not be my personal choice, but would not bother replacing them if you already have them.

you seem to be getting frustrated with our comments. well, thats your choice. most of us have done our research, spent the money (which it seems you dont have available), and installed the parts we recommend. so, if you want to do whatever you want, fine by us. however ignore our advice at your own risk. we dont sell products (most of us), and will not see a dime, or discount for giving you suggestions, so we gain nothing by giving you misguided, or bias advice. you really need to lay down how much you can spend, and what you want it to do. from what it sounds, you just wont have the cash for the right pieces for the job you seem to want to do... and that requires sacrafice, either sacraficing performance, or your wallet.

honestly, reading back through everything there really isnt much good tech in this thread, which is kinda disapointing, especially since both Tom and San dropped in. bottom line, you are only mildly improving your situation by cutting the springs. if you need to get lowered and keep it cheap, FRPP C springs are what you want. they drop about 1.5 and are not compromised.

just something to note... HR makes their Race springs. the race springs are not that ehavy of a drop, about 1"-1.25" or about 3/4" with new isolators. reason i bring this up is to point out how little of a drop HR makes their "race" springs. you might be thinking "yeah, HR is stupid, give me a good example" well... the HR race spring is the single suggested spring for use by Maximum motorsports.... now just for a follow up, just take a poll on who everyone thinks is the best mustang suspension company... lower is not always better.

Torinalth

^^^^^ knows what hes talking about....

if lower was ALWAYS BETTER then every race car no matter what series would be sitting 1/2" off the ground... and you do want SOME body roll to help the rear of the car rotate around the turn...

 

[squares98]

you are not building a race car, lower it 2" if you choose, mine is 1.75" up front 1.25" rear. If you want a lowered car 1" will not look lowered.
Some guys only have a year or two experience in this and know what they know, if you get past all that Marketing that has been shoved in peoples heads there really are alot of good options for going lower than 1.5" and retaining good handling. I wont get into it on this forum because of the brainwashing that Max Motorsports does to sell parts(not saying they are bad, but they are not godly).

 

[dlascoskie]

I'm not frustrated by your opinions.....I'm just not convinced you all know what you're talking about yet! Call me a pesimest, but I'd like to see a show of hands from all the people here that roadrace.
Like I said before, I'm not complaining about ride quality, bump steer, crazy-out-of-control oversteer, body rolling like a muffintop, traction............I'm just simply trying to make minor adjustments to an already very good handling car. You know, trying to squeeze those last few tenths out of an already good suspension setup. You make me sound like a cheap bastard, and maybe I am, but I just hate spending money on something that I can customize myself. Aftermarket parts are designed and made by humans, afterall. In my humble opinion, too many people like the pre-packaged, off the shelf, one-size fits all, anybody can have it if they're willing to spend the money pieces. I'd rather have one-off original pieces that kick aftermarket pieces in the ass. Like my modified stock shifter. (can't wait to see your reactions to that comment)

ps- I am frustrated, however, by people's lack of respect for accomplished racer's / innovators like Carroll Shelby and Sean Hyland. It's typical of today's society, but it's very annoying and frustrating to me.

 

[dlascoskie]

and by the way, yes I am building a race car...........didn't you bother to read the thread, squares98?

 

[squares98]

Do you know the difference between a race car and a car setup for open track events. Go over to C.C. and post your response and see if anyone takes you seriously. No I dont road race, I do an HDPE event here and there(not in the mustang), but I never race.

 

[dlascoskie]

ok, you define "building a racecar."

 

[Torinalth]

just putting a marker in here. if you want to get into a serious conversation about all this, i'll be willing to go through all that i know (shouldnt take long) and see if i cant assist. but yes, a good amount of us know our suspension... however, you have to admit first talking about cutting coils, then fabbing one off parts kinda sends a mixed impression to those that would normally assist. i'll be back on when i am finished with work and see what we can go over.

Torinalth

 

[san~man]

Ummmm............Sean Hyland races a Cobra at Pike's Peak.
Carroll Shelby designed the Viper and the New Cobra. (not Mustang)
Every set of LCA's I can afford have poly on both ends.
The shocks are AGX externally adjustable. (let me guess, they're crap too, i need to spend $250 a piece to get a quality shock?)

1. SH at Pike's peak...so what? Driving on dirt is different from driving on asphalt/concrete. Pike's Peak cars usually have a much longer suspension travel to compensate for lack of road.

2. Carrol Shelby DID NOT design the new Cobra, I don't care what you say. Putting his name on that car is a pure MARKETING ploy and nothing to do with design. Look at the car. Other than the motor and maybe some revised suspension tuning, there isn't really much difference between the Cobra and the current GT. Now you want to tell me that Shelby designed it? Try again.

3. A MM standard LCA with poly/spherical bushings does not cost THAT much more than your BBK or any other part out there. They aren't made of gold.

4. Like T said, AGX isn't the worst but isn't the best either. Bilsteins will run under $600.00 easily, you just need to look around.

 

[tomustang]

honestly, reading back through everything there really isnt much good tech in this thread, which is kinda disapointing, especially since both Tom and San dropped in.

I targeted his main problem which was this

But I still feel like the center of gravity needs to be lower for better handling.......especially in the rear. Any thoughts or ideas?

the wet noodle 4 link

 

[tomustang]

Do you know the difference between a race car and a car setup for open track events. Go over to C.C. and post your response and see if anyone takes you seriously. No I dont road race, I do an HDPE event here and there(not in the mustang), but I never race.

high density polyethylene?

 

[mity2]

I'm just simply trying to make minor adjustments to an already very good handling car.

Ha.... I thought of many things about my car when I got it. but good handling car was not one of them...

 

[squares98]

high density polyethylene?

First great laugh of the day, I way chewing on an orange when I read that, lol

 

[san~man]

honestly, reading back through everything there really isnt much good tech in this thread, which is kinda disapointing, especially since both Tom and San dropped in.

Well, I guess after a while I gave up, seeing as how he believed that SH and CS were "innovators." CS, maybe, back in the early 70's but now, no. SH, IMO, no. No disrespect to them, but "no."

If peeps can't understand or don't wish to learn that the problem with our cars, other than the ancient Fairmont chassis, is the REAR end then I can't nor can anyone else really help them. Period.

 

[dlascoskie]

Mity- i was referring to the handling characteristics of my car AFTER my mods. it's very good, but there is a little room for improvement....that's what i meant when i said i was chasing the last few tenths.

San-Man- i'll be as nice as possible........i'd take advice from carroll shelby's crew chief and sean hyland over you any day. :Zip2:

To everyone else who had an offering to this thread.....thanks for your help, i now declare :worthlesa

 

[tomustang]

San-Man- i'll be as nice as possible........i'd take advice from carroll shelby's crew chief and sean hyland over you any day. :Zip2:

I'd rather take san~man's advice over a SHM anyday of the week

Between me, Squares98, san~man, and Torinalth, in this thread we are the most knowedgable when it comes to suspension. You should heed the words spoken from us.





my $.02

 

[mity2]

I'd rather take san~man's advice over a SHM anyday of the week

Between me, Squares98, san~man, and Torinalth, in this thread we are the most knowedgable when it comes to suspension. You should heed the words spoken from us.





my $.02

LOL YOu tell'em TomTom

 

[TrueBlue03]

i dunno. im lowered more than 2" in front and about 1.75" in the rear and my car rides like its on rails. it scrapes on every speed bump and road debris, my chin spoiler gets raped by every driveway and i have to dodge pot holes like they're land mines.

...BUT i love the stance and have not met a person yet who has hated the look regarding how low it is.


and i agree with mity2....lowered on 18s is pure sex

 

[Torinalth]

I'm going to take one last stab at this before i give in.

first take a crack at these threads. some good info in these.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=627412&highlight=torque+arm

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=622703&highlight=torque+arm

and finally my individual thoughts.

If you are wanting to become top end in handeling, you will need to put down some hard cash, there is just no good way of doing this.

tom was correct in his comment on the wet noodle 4 link. the back end of the car is garbage and every bit of it needs replacement to get everything happy for turns. If you want to start fabbing stuff yourself, then go for it, a lot of guys over at CC do... however you must know what you are doing to make the right items. you can easily convert to a rear coilover setup and fab your own LCAs... tempted to do that myself if i ever find the desire to go with rear coilovers. aside from that you will be having a nightmare on fabbing the rest for the rear. reason being..... the rear is just so complex due to the ford stock design, nothing really works "ideally" you can see why in my first link.

after reading my first link, you can at least get some options for what is needed, and see if you can do any of it yourself. for the front (yes the front needs help too) you can either refine the front suspension with tubular A arms, k member, and coilovers... or ou can replace it completely.... griggs makes a SLA (short-Long arm) conversion for the front... this, from what i have heard, is awesome... however i have only seen 1 even in usage, and he was on the net, but can only fathom how much it costs. if you are good with angles, measuring, and creating working modles/computer modles then you could fab up a SLA of your own. that is too daunting for me as i have a very limited suply of tools. my PHB install this weekend will be a stretch for me.

if you want to improve the grip of the car i'd replace the springs... why? the stock springs are linear compression... MOST aftermarket springs are progressive, which will respond better under harder cornering loads. the AGX will be fine for standard usage, however i dont know of any coilover kit that can use AGX shocks (another reason i went bilstein), so if you plan to go with different A arms, or fab your own LCAs you will be looking at more money later on.

i dont mind helping you further, and i really enjoy helping others with suspension, but its your call if you want us to keep going or just end it. ball's in your court.

Torinalth

 

[Torinalth]

i dunno. im lowered more than 2" in front and about 1.75" in the rear and my car rides like its on rails. it scrapes on every speed bump and road debris, my chin spoiler gets raped by every driveway and i have to dodge pot holes like they're land mines.

...BUT i love the stance and have not met a person yet who has hated on how low it is.


and i agree with mity2....lowered on 18s is pure sex

if i ever get out to CA with my car to visit my grandparents i'd gladly let you see the difference in stance and how it effects turning capability dont get me wrong... slammed on 18s is dead sexy... but i'd rather have the ability to case down an S2000

Torinalth