How much boost can you run?

LXSTASY · Apr 26, 2005

I am getting flustered with my new HCI decision. AFM has their s-trim kits for $3k. Instead of a cam, I would leave the stock cam and add 1.7rr with the heads and intake. The heads I ordered are 58 cc so would that be too much compression on a stock block? How good of an idea is this?

LXSTASY · Apr 27, 2005

Grn92LX · Apr 27, 2005

Certainly not too much compression. On a stock block with a 58cc head your maybe 9.3:1 anyway.

If you have the money go for it. But don't buy the kit from AFM. I paid less than $2300 for my vortech and there was also a $100 rebate so it was $2200.

Dont forget 42/50lb injectors or use the 24's/FMU for now. I highly suggest a PMS to tune.

I take back what I said in your other thread where I offered you 2 and the brake. If you do this, its head the fugg up

LXSTASY · Apr 27, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Certainly not too much compression. On a stock block with a 58cc head your maybe 9.3:1 anyway.

If you have the money go for it. But don't buy the kit from AFM. I paid less than $2300 for my vortech and there was also a $100 rebate so it was $2200.

Dont forget 42/50lb injectors or use the 24's/FMU for now. I highly suggest a PMS to tune.

I take back what I said in your other thread where I offered you 2 and the brake. If you do this, its head the fugg up

Yea i am soooo confused what cam to do and i got excited about the supercharger. What is my compression with the 58cc heads on a stock block???

Grn92LX · Apr 27, 2005

LXSTASY said:
What is my compression with the 58cc heads on a stock block???

I just told you appx what it is.

The charger is a really good idea. But honestly, I say learn to crawl before you learn to walk if ya follow me. Build a n/a combo first, then do a supercharger in a few months/ a year. The cam is a no brainer. Have Ed grind you something to make POWER. If your dead set on shelf I told you the afm n-41 should work decent.

I saw an accufab 75mm tb on nmraracing.com for $75. Just to show you theres deals out there Little things here and there will help you make more power (as you know).

I thought you were trying to save money by not going custom cam and all of a sudden your looking into $3000 worth of blower stuff.

LXSTASY · Apr 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I just told you appx what it is.

The charger is a really good idea. But honestly, I say learn to crawl before you learn to walk if ya follow me. Build a n/a combo first, then do a supercharger in a few months/ a year. The cam is a no brainer. Have Ed grind you something to make POWER. If your dead set on shelf I told you the afm n-41 should work decent.

I saw an accufab 75mm tb on nmraracing.com for $75. Just to show you theres deals out there Little things here and there will help you make more power (as you know).

I thought you were trying to save money by not going custom cam and all of a sudden your looking into $3000 worth of blower stuff.

Thats where im confused. I'm not trying to save money, I have $9k to spend, but I don't know how mush I want to spend. Some days I want to go faster than others.

Grn92LX · Apr 28, 2005

I don't think i'd spend ALL of that savings on the car in one shot. Why don't you just put together a good h/c/i package with more than enough power for 11.80's. I say ditch that cobra intake/65mm tb and go with a performer RPM manifold and a 75mm tb with a nice cam from Ed. Or go with an RPM II and build this bitch to make POWER and not that little 300rwhp BS

Now that I see you have that much to spend, definatly go with a FTI cam and his spring package. Built the combo to make good power on motor and it'll satisfy you for a long time. Check out what Toms89lx50 made with his stock shortblock afr 165, ported rpm, fti cam combo made. 347rwhp. I wanna see you make power, not the 300rwhp BS. I can Email you his dyno graph.

Oh by the way, i'm a big dawg. I bought some bassani longtubes lol

I'm waiting on them and my TFS R manifold.

5spd GT · Apr 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Check out what Toms89lx50 made with his stock shortblock afr 165, ported rpm, fti cam combo made. 347rwhp. I wanna see you make power, not the 300rwhp BS. I can Email you his dyno graph.

This above guy didn't have powersteering or a/c or a smog pump and he had and aluminum flywheel to make those more unstreetable numbers. The 347rwhp was not S.A.E. corrected and it fell down towards 332rwhp I believe when it was. Not impressive at all when looked at again and he had all those "big" parts No need for them. So if you hooked back up all those accessories he deleted and put back on the average "dynoed" stock flywheel (on most h/c/i cars) you get that 300rwhp mark AGAIN...300rwhp or a bit over is still the mark to hit and still be of daily driver capability.

Don't forget to put all "mods" when a powered number is put down. To bad I had to do that again

So Tom made about 305-310rwhp when everything is back to "normal"...pretty common...and he is less streetable...so you pick.

I think the supercharger idea is a great one if you got a dyno and a place that is reputable to burn you a chip for YOUR car. A PMS isn't the most user friendly piece and isn't as accurate as a dyno which shows you your power and where to make it and change it. A PMS can be a bunch of playing around and guessing and you would still need to go to the dyno (preferably) or a track (not so preferred because of different variables) to see what you gained and how your A/F ratio is...

You could get a S/C trim (not as much boost) for around $1,600 bucks for now as an entry level blower and see what you think and either add more h/c/i products or upgrade the blower. Your choice

N8Miller · Apr 28, 2005

personally, i would opt for a nice HCI combo as well. I am also a fan of edelbrock parts, so i would go wtih the RPM or RPM2.

the parts are only "too big" if they are run with an OTS cam. if you have that 9gs to spend, there is no reason to have a OTS cam and not one from Ed or (my vote) Jay allen. my 331 with those "big parts" has better street manners now than it did when it was a stock 302.

Grn92LX · Apr 28, 2005

Tom made 347rwhp, end of discussion. Why would you correct numbers? Its not Toms fault he lives in better elevation and better air. He made what he made on the dyno PERIOD. Some people put better stuff on their cars because they want to make good n/a power and not settle for mediocrety.

I removed my a/c and smog pump back when my car was a daily driver. There is no power to be gained in doing so, Except when the a/c is ON obviously. Is my car not a street car anymore since I have no a/c or smog? I guess yours isn't either because you removed your cat convterters right?

Anyway, you said a PMS isn't user friendly. When did you use one? I HAVE ONE in my car and its extremely easy to use. Buy yourself a cheap $300 wideband kit and you'll never need to dyno your car. A chip around here is over $600 and the shops blow. A pms/tweecer is what he'd ideally want.

Boy is Dan lucky we live 10 min from each other and he doesn't have to rely on stangnet as his only source of info

5spd GT · Apr 28, 2005

Nate - The 331 has a lot to do with the better street manners (makes up for any torque loss). Also the engine is "new" compared to an old tired out 302 like I have...

The only reason why I went with the h/c/i route is because I knew I could tune it myself (unlike you would need to properly set a supercharger tune).

5spd GT · Apr 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Tom made 347rwhp, end of discussion. Why would you correct numbers? Its not Toms fault he lives in better elevation and better air. He made what he made on the dyno PERIOD.

No it isn't the end of discussion...I layed out how he made the power. You were comparing it to the "300rwhp" cars and I showed how he isn't any different than them Why not compare apples to apples instead of trying to compare a cucumber to a pickle????

Grn92LX said:
I removed my a/c and smog pump back when my car was a daily driver. There is no power to be gained in doing so, Except when the a/c is ON obviously. Is my car not a street car anymore since I have no a/c or smog? I guess yours isn't either because you removed your cat convterters right?

You also didn't feel any difference when you added a bigger/calibrated properly MAF (80mm Pro-M) and 75mm TB Accufab... Have you ever spun over the pulley on the a/c? There IS drag...that is drag on the engine. Even more so when it is engaged (the clutch). Don't misrepresent info. I have my smog deleted. Seemed to pull a tick harder. Again have you ever spun the smog pump pulley. There IS drag. That is drag on the engine "sucking up" power. With these deletions they have been proven on the dyno across the board. I'd rather be comfortable in stop and go traffic with the a/c in the summer than gain that 5-8rwhp and rwt proven from the deletion(s). Nope...I don't have smog emission testing here in AR so it's still streetable. I would rather have my a/c in the summer. Don't make it seem like it is so easy to "delete" the a/c when you have the "summer" coming up and readers from all around the country with different climates

Grn92LX said:
Anyway, you said a PMS isn't user friendly. When did you use one? I HAVE ONE in my car and its extremely easy to use. Buy yourself a cheap $300 wideband kit and you'll never need to dyno your car. A chip around here is over $600 and the shops blow. A pms/tweecer is what he'd ideally want.

The PMS needs to be learned to best use it. Similar (but not as in-depth) as a Tweecer. Why not do it right and get a chip (your brain for the car) burnt at a reputable shop to do what it is supposed to do. A PMS is just like sticking a Q-tip in your ear (brain)...it can only do so much good You have barely used it on your car and not on a blown car to be more specific. You fixed some idling issues...wow...real similar to the a/f ratio and timing issues a supercharger will put your car thru...

Grn92LX said:
Boy is Dan lucky we live 10 min from each other and he doesn't have to rely of stangnet as his only source of info

Luckily...

Grn92LX · Apr 28, 2005

You fixed some idling issues...wow...real similar to the a/f ratio and timing issues a supercharger will put your car thru

Actually, I did my base tune for my med load, high load and WOT fuel and timing. Also fully cured all idle issues (too bad the chip I wasted money on couldn't come close to that) Never 100% dialed the car in since I sold the combo to build a very unstreetable street car I have a PMS and I might end up buying a plx wideband, no need for a dyno chip here. Why settle for mediocrety?

I'd rather be comfortable in stop and go traffic with the a/c in the summer than gain that 5-8rwhp and rwt proven from the deletion

I'll be comfortable too in my saturn with a/c all while getting 30+ mpg

5spd GT · Apr 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Actually, I did my base tune for my med load, high load and WOT fuel and timing. Also fully cured all idle issues (too bad the chip I wasted money on couldn't come close to that) Never 100% dialed the car in since I sold the combo to build a very unstreetable street car I have a PMS and I might end up buying a plx wideband, no need for a dyno chip here. Why settle for mediocrety?

I didn't know you had a very unstreetable car? I could have swore I was referring to Tom's more unstreetable characteristics to get the desired power...you beat me there Don't start twisting...because I can counter those well...

Yeah the "chip" you got burned wasn't from a reputable shop that does work regularly on cars like yours. It wouldn't have happened otherwise...or they would have atleast fixed it. You haven't been on a dyno or track (I know yours is closed but take a road trip)...to prove how your car is running "better".

Why settle for perfection?

So can the PMS change your spring height? Do they clean your air filters for ya? I just thought since it can do it all (as you seem to infer often)...I would ask

5spd GT · Apr 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I'll be comfortable too in my saturn with a/c all while getting 30+ mpg

Well I guess I'll settle for my car that got 24mpg last week (mixed driving) while getting there faster and the other "pros"

But good luck in your 30mpg car...

Grn92LX · Apr 28, 2005

5spd GT said:
So can the PMS change your spring height? Do they clean your air filters for ya? I just thought since it can do it all (as you seem to infer often)...I would ask

Yup, it does it all It can do all the above mentioned AND it will give you sexual favors when your girlfriend is "too tired". You can't lose with this thing

I'm sick of arguing back and forth with you. We both know it goes NO where fast. You will agree with this: "To each their own"

nmcgrawj · Apr 28, 2005

5spd GT said:
So can the PMS change your spring height? Do they clean your air filters for ya? I just thought since it can do it all (as you seem to infer often)...I would ask

Nope...the PMS cant change spring height....but the chip can though right?

So you say the shop will change it....thats funny cause if its REALLY necessary why isnt everyone getting a chip so they can have that advantage? Sure if you throw together some crazy combo in your back yard you are gonna need changes. But the last time i checked, most guys on here are getting dialed in detailed packages to run from the Pros already setup. So most dont need to go back and "readjust" spring heights.

So i guess Paul or Snoozer should go back and get a chip so they can go faster right?

The FACT is that out of the PMS and tweecer...the PMS is leaps and bounds easier to use than the tweecer. What do you know about the PMS and how to use it? Have you sat down to use one before? I guess it might be REALLY hard for some people to change fuel percentages and timing by simply pressing one button. You ALSO get boost tables and nitrous tables. And it seems like you think that if he or anyone else gets the PMS...they gotta figure out how to use it on their own. Spend much time at stangtuning.com? The guys over there like Gary who have used the PMS for years and years make it their personal mission to get you running well. Oh yea, you know Bob Kurgan? He was on their helping people out too.

Lets just stop this garbage, David isnt gonna get off his Chip bandwagon and we arent going to get off our tweecer/pms band wagon. Simply said, each way CAN get you tuned...its PERSONAL OPINION on how you want to get there. Some guys like doing it themselves...others like throwing out cash and not having anything to do with how their car was fixed.

5spd GT · Apr 29, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
Nope...the PMS cant change spring height....but the chip can though right?

Your losing here bud, I never said the chip could...

nmcgrawj said:
So you say the shop will change it....thats funny cause if its REALLY necessary why isnt everyone getting a chip so they can have that advantage? Sure if you throw together some crazy combo in your back yard you are gonna need changes. But the last time i checked, most guys on here are getting dialed in detailed packages to run from the Pros already setup. So most dont need to go back and "readjust" spring heights.

Did you not read the thread? The reason (as pointed out by Grn92Lx) is pricing - he listed them...READ THE POST. And on the "shop changing" I was saying a REPUTABLE shop will fix your "chip problem" or try to work with you...what was so hard about that?

nmcgrawj said:
So i guess Paul or Snoozer should go back and get a chip so they can go faster right?

Are they boosted? That is what I thought

Anyways...an overall vehicle performance isn't based on what they do at the drag strip. You can sacrifice many things to get those faster times as I have layed out and will continue to do...

nmcgrawj said:
The FACT is that out of the PMS and tweecer...the PMS is leaps and bounds easier to use than the tweecer. What do you know about the PMS and how to use it? Have you sat down to use one before? I guess it might be REALLY hard for some people to change fuel percentages and timing by simply pressing one button. You ALSO get boost tables and nitrous tables. And it seems like you think that if he or anyone else gets the PMS...they gotta figure out how to use it on their own. Spend much time at stangtuning.com? The guys over there like Gary who have used the PMS for years and years make it their personal mission to get you running well. Oh yea, you know Bob Kurgan? He was on their helping people out too.

I already said the PMS is easier to learn than the tweecer...read the post. I would hope you would have someone to help. Not sure what your point was with that one...lol.

nmcgrawj said:
Lets just stop this garbage, David isnt gonna get off his Chip bandwagon and we arent going to get off our tweecer/pms band wagon. Simply said, each way CAN get you tuned...its PERSONAL OPINION on how you want to get there. Some guys like doing it themselves...others like throwing out cash and not having anything to do with how their car was fixed.

So your saying to take the car on a dyno (having it done by professionals) is throwing out your money Years of experience on similar cars vs. a newbie trying to tune his own...hmm...you make the call on that one. That was a HORRIBLE argument.

Again...are they boosted? If you READ the thread it is about boost...but ya'll are useing h/c/i cars to try to "win him over". Atleast use some boosted applications to try to prove your point...all in all IMO a dyno tune by a reputable shop is the most cost effiecent way to get the car running the way it should. Your able to make the tune you want using a single chip but those who do it all the time IN PERSON.

5spd GT · Apr 29, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Yup, it does it all It can do all the above mentioned AND it will give you sexual favors when your girlfriend is "too tired". You can't lose with this thing

I'm sick of arguing back and forth with you. We both know it goes NO where fast. You will agree with this: "To each their own"

I find it sad how you always seem to get personal with some of your post. And not just with me If that makes you feel better about the decisions you make...

Alls I simply want "some" to do is start listing the variables to why cars are getting what they are getting...is it that hard?

Example: I have stressed that in a couple choice threads, for example on shorty vs. longtube headers. Longtubes will get a better midranging power over the shortys (so the pro is more power) but some forget to mention the cons of it which are buying a matching mid-pipe (more money and aren't able to use the stock mid-pipe) along with ground clearance issues (especially on a lower car) and also the difficulty of install is "stepped up" quite a bit when trying to get longtubes in. It also can cause heat-soak issues and steering column clearance/rubbing issues. The potential purchaser has to ask themself is the extra midrange worth it? Then you get your answer...

Grn92LX · Apr 29, 2005

5spd GT said:
I find it sad how you always seem to get personal with some of your post. And not just with me If that makes you feel better about the decisions you make...

You lost me

How much boost can you run?

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