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  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

How much power am I losing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Apr 28, 2012
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sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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NC State University
Apr 29, 2012
#21
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #21
trinity_gt said:
When mine was normally aspirated I gained a solid 20HP past 5500 with these mild ("Stage 1" if you prefer) Comps and lost virtually nothing down low so yes, IMO, they're definitely worth it.
Click to expand...

Yup, they will make more power up top for sure. With a super inefficient roots blower at only 8 psi, my peak horsepower is at about 6200 rwhp with a set of mild blower cams on PI heads. That compares to around 55-5600 for a stock cam PI head car. At 6k rpm, I bet I've picked up 40+ rwhp, with no loss in low end torque.

madmike1157 said:
The way I see it, a bigger cam opens the valve more, the more the valve is open, the more air and gas get in. More in, more out. And I have a shorty on the head that has the stage 1 cam. I saw no reason to change over the ex manifold on the head w/ the stock cam until I can get the new cam back from Patriot.
Click to expand...

A bigger cam does not necessarily open the valve any more. My blower cams have roughly the same intake lift as the stock PI cams, and over .025 less exhaust lift. The big difference in aftermarket cams is the duration and lobe centerlines/LSA.

These are the cams from my car. Blower cam on left and stock PI cam on right.



Notice how the lobe height is very similar (which is because they're practically identical as per the specs), but see how much fatter the blower cam is? THAT is where the power comes from.

For reference, a stock PI cam has .507 intake lift and .534 exhaust lift. A Hitech Stage I cam and an MHS Stage I cam has .550/.500 while a Comp Stage I has .550/.550. So without knowing what cam you have, it's not possible for us to tell you if that sounds right or not. As shown by the Hitech and MHS specs, it's possible the valve lift IS actually less than stock.

Look, I'm not so dumb as to not know that a 1/16th is equal to .060. If you measure the cam lobe, and cant come up w/ a 32nd of an inch, there must not be much of a difference.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's .0625", but we'll let it slide.

Also, because of the rocker arm ratio, you won't see .500 or .550 or whatever on the cam lobe. It'll only be around half that (~.6 IIRC).

There is too much debate on whether or not longtubes are worth the expense and hassle. I've got one afterburner shorty on there now, and I had a hell of a time getting it on there.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is debate on whether long tubes are worth it or not. But there is absolutely NO debate on shorties. They are 100% a waste of money.
 

AZmustang98

Member
Oct 19, 2011
373
17
19
Flagstaff, Arizona
Apr 29, 2012
#22
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #22
Longtubes...best mod that I have done to my car to date. Even with the chitty NPI heads, it really helped on the top end.
 
Reactions: 1fun281

1fun281

Member
Mar 16, 2009
438
8
19
Atlanta Georgia
Apr 29, 2012
#23
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #23
There is too much debate on whether or not longtubes are worth the expense and hassle. I've got one afterburner shorty on there now, and I had a hell of a time getting it on there.[/quote]


Ok well take it from somebody who knows from experience longtubes are worth every bit of the hassle, there is no debate in that field, they open up the motor to breathe so much id reccomend people putting longtubes on a stock car, almost more seat of the pants feel then gears, next shorties do absolutely nothing to a 4.6 you wasted your time with them.
 

nine2oneGT

Member
Apr 13, 2008
94
2
9
Austin, TX
Apr 29, 2012
#24
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #24
 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
15 Year Member
Dec 19, 2010
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Apr 29, 2012
#25
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #25
Well, after seeing the difference on the size of those cams, it seems we now have another issue to address: weight imbalance. That's gotta ba a difference of 15-20 lbs per cam... Mike I suggest adding/subtract weight in the car to balance it out....
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
2,387
144
114
NC State University
Apr 29, 2012
#26
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #26
SSeater, yes, that definitely needs to be addressed.
 

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
2,169
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Apr 29, 2012
#27
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #27
Maybe just put two spares on one side
 

Dark04GT

10 Year Member
Apr 27, 2008
758
62
59
NC
Apr 29, 2012
#28
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #28
madmike1157 said:
I really don't have any other mods worth talking about, but, I do I have a water 4 gas hydrogen injection kit installed, and straight pipes from the manifold to the flows dumped before the axle.
Click to expand...

Dump that hydrogen injection kit quick. You are injecting pure snake water in your intake.
 

jetmech807

10 Year Member
Dec 1, 2011
1,195
326
164
Crestview, FL
Apr 29, 2012
#29
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #29
Maybe point both exhaust pipes out of the right side of the car. The exhaust would push the car left.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,042
21,211
234
Box behind Walmart
Apr 29, 2012
#30
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #30
I'm banning everyone.

That is all.

 
Reactions: SSeater

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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Birmingham, al
Apr 29, 2012
#31
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #31
SSeater said:
Well, after seeing the difference on the size of those cams, it seems we now have another issue to address: weight imbalance. That's gotta ba a difference of 15-20 lbs per cam... Mike I suggest adding/subtract weight in the car to balance it out....
Click to expand...

So Then what you're saying now is the the aftermarket cam weighs more than the stocker? Why if there is so much of a weight imbalance haven't I felt it in the form of vibration then? The car runs smooth like glass. Not as smooth as see through glass, but kinda slightly bumpy like the stuff they use on your bathroom window. (You can still tell somebody is looking in trying to see you naked, you just don't know if it's the hot babe from next door, or the perv that lives down the street.)

anyways, it's a better idea than your last suggestion. You guys mess w/ me so much, I don't know when you're serious or not. That nitrous suggestion was a joke right? I mean a fogger is a lot of money to just put pills on one side........Right?

fiveohwblow said:
Maybe just put two spares on one side
Click to expand...

I don't have any spares, I do have another set of PI heads though. There's certainly room in the trunk. If I put one head behind the driver side tire, do you think that'll be enough ballast to straighten the car out? Should I bolt it down, or do you think I should epoxy it to the floor? I don't want the damn thing sliding around and denting my quarter all to hell.

Dark04GT said:
Dump that hydrogen injection kit quick. You are injecting pure snake water in your intake.
Click to expand...

??? Snakes can't get into the mason Jars that hold the electrolyte solution I used the screw down lids w/ the big rubber gasket. So how do you figure its' "snake water"?

jetmech807 said:
Maybe point both exhaust pipes out of the right side of the car. The exhaust would push the car left.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

That will only work after the car gets going, Einstein. This isn't a Jet. What about starting off? I'm no Jet mech, but I'd venture to say that there would not be enough exhaust velocity built up yet to push the car................. Not so smart now, are we?

Noobz347 said:
I'm banning everyone.

That is all.

Click to expand...

Why?
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,042
21,211
234
Box behind Walmart
Apr 29, 2012
#32
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #32
...because the possibility exists (however small) that you could reproduce.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Apr 29, 2012
#33
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #33
Noobz347 said:
...because the possibility exists (however small) that you could reproduce.
Click to expand...
HA! Been there, done that. Twice.

dun da da da dahhh.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,042
21,211
234
Box behind Walmart
Apr 29, 2012
#34
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #34
madmike1157 said:
HA! Been there, done that. Twice.

dun da da da dahhh.
Click to expand...

 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
15 Year Member
Dec 19, 2010
5,721
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224
Apr 29, 2012
#35
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #35
I like grapes..
 

RacEoHolic330

I like to dress like a pretty girl
15 Year Member
Mar 4, 2003
4,014
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203
Allentown, PA
Apr 29, 2012
#36
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #36
I like melons. Big, juicy melons.
 
Reactions: SSeater and fiveohwblow

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
2,169
145
155
Apr 29, 2012
#37
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #37
SSeater said:
I like grapes..
Click to expand...

Aka balls

RacEoHolic330 said:
I like melons. Big, juicy melons.
Click to expand...

Aka titties


What have we learned? Allen is teh ghey, raceoholic like tig ole lactating bitties and I solved mikes problem by leading him to understand he should epoxy pi heads to his trunk.
 
Reactions: MNStanger03 and RacEoHolic330

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Apr 29, 2012
#38
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #38
fiveohwblow said:
Aka balls



Aka titties


What have we learned? Allen is teh ghey, raceoholic like tig ole lactating bitties and I solved mikes problem by leading him to understand he should epoxy pi heads to his trunk.
Click to expand...

You never said jack about why I should glue my head to the trunk,....I looked
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Apr 29, 2012
#39
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #39
madmike1157 said:
You never said jack about why I should glue my head to the trunk,....I looked
Click to expand...
So tell me,...why is glued head better than screwed head?
 

fiveohwblow

Official Member
15 Year Member
Jul 21, 2005
2,169
145
155
Apr 29, 2012
#40
  • Apr 29, 2012
  • #40
madmike1157 said:
So tell me,...why is glued head better than screwed head?
Click to expand...


I never liked the idea of screwed on heads just cause of the whole stigma of "head screwed on straight" so it's easier to avoid the whole dilemma by using epoxy.
 
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