How much power can a 94 GT make if you don't change the look of the engine?

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Mustang5L5

Put lubricant all over the balls
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363 stroker kit in the stock block.

Send your E7's, HO intake, throttle body and headers to Big Dogs porting and write them a fat check and let them go to town.

Run the 85-88 cam with 1.7 rr's.


That's a :poo: ton of money, but it ain't mine so I'm interested to see the above done.
 

7991LXnSHO

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Ok??? Thats not what op asked, or what I replied to. he asked about power while looking bone stock, that means a fully dressed engine to me. .....He asked about power on modified stock parts so E7 heads and a production 94-95 gt intake, induction and stock looking headers, that's pretty much a cheated up h/s, I/s class engine but fully dressed with accessories.... so about 320ish to the tire with alot of money dumped into labor cutting and welding parts and making them look untouched, that aint cheap and definitely not worth it when your not building something to class rules..

I've seen e7 headed cars run 10's on motor and 9s on a small shot of nitrous, but its not what he's asking about. An over geared class car or a tin can track toy with junkyard parts looks nothing like "factory stock" like the op stipulated, I never said you cant go fast with those parts.
I added this real world application instead of just bench racing theory. The response was to the OP, not you.
Adding headers, exhaust, and a cam to ported stock parts will help meet the lower goal, but not the completely stock vibe.
And I did not suggest nitrous. I do not disagree with it, but the OP has been clear about not wanting to use it.
The worth of the expense of cutting and welding stock parts probably is different to the OP vs. most of us.
 

nickyb

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dart block will look stock,tkx 5 speed will hold up,lots of nitrous will help stock heads and intake.
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90sickfox

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Hollow out a stock block. Insert electric motor inside. Bolt headers and accessories to the outside. Replace air pump and a 3hp electric motor to turn the belt for AC. Then when you beat people you can tell them the car wasn't even running.

It sounds stupid...but someone...somewhere....is probably working on a set up like this right now.

You could leave the engine bay dirty and completely stock looking. The sound would be terrible though.
 
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TOOLOW91

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363 stroker kit in the stock block.

Send your E7's, HO intake, throttle body and headers to Big Dogs porting and write them a fat check and let them go to town.

Run the 85-88 cam with 1.7 rr's.


That's a :poo: ton of money, but it ain't mine so I'm interested to see the above done.
Eh. - you’re not going 4.125 on a stock block to get a 363 . Lol
 
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TOOLOW91

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DSS doesn’t make blocks . They are nothing more then stock blocks. You could stuff a dart in this tning and I’ll bet your friends wouldn’t know what they are looking at .

Again a big inch dart on even the wildest stock heads is a waste . I gave you some ways to achieve your goal . Again I bet no one will tell the difference between explorer gt40 and a stock upper as they are so close .

Either way best of luck on your cause
 

bennylava

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Well I wasn't going to keep up the troll forever. A few minutes later it would become obvious that the engine was far from stock, despite any appearances. They'd probably just begin hunting for the NOS lines very soon after, no longer believing the car was stock. This troll would only last for 2 or 3 minutes at best. Then I'd of course have to admit that I'd done all manner of crap to the engine. It would be ridiculous to attempt to continue after just a couple minutes. But I'd do it to a lot of people and fun would be had in the meantime.

I do appreciate everyone's help, but its not a total waste of money, cause I'd be getting a way faster car than stock. So while the money didn't buy maximum power, it still bought a good deal of power. There isn't much more the 302 could do, that I'd be willing to put up with. The car will never have anything stronger than pump gas, because it's just a street machine for me. I'm not going to suffer all the drawbacks of the 550hp 302's you guys deal/dealt with. If I'm going that hi I'm skipping the outdated, obsolete old 302 and just going with a Coyote and a roots type. Then I beat every car mentioned in this thread with great ease. And so why didn't I just go buy some s197 or whatever this new thing is. Why didn't I just skip the sn95 entirely.

Lastly, there seems to be a pretty big disagreement here when it comes to the potential power output of the sleep engine. You're saying 290hp, other people are saying 100 more at the wheels. Who's right and who is wrong? The cars were what... 220 for the HO 5.0?
 

LILCBRA

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Headers are such an ubiquitous modification I don't think anyone would blink an eye at them, so I'm not sure why you'd want to keep the stockers if it's only going to be a for a few minutes of trolling. Otherwise, I don't think I can add anything more than what's already been suggested by others except to mention to not forget about the transmission, rear end and wheel size. Those factors wouldn't be outwardly identifiable and can completely change the car.
 

bird_dog0347

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Well I wasn't going to keep up the troll forever. A few minutes later it would become obvious that the engine was far from stock, despite any appearances. They'd probably just begin hunting for the NOS lines very soon after, no longer believing the car was stock. This troll would only last for 2 or 3 minutes at best. Then I'd of course have to admit that I'd done all manner of crap to the engine. It would be ridiculous to attempt to continue after just a couple minutes. But I'd do it to a lot of people and fun would be had in the meantime.

I do appreciate everyone's help, but its not a total waste of money, cause I'd be getting a way faster car than stock. So while the money didn't buy maximum power, it still bought a good deal of power. There isn't much more the 302 could do, that I'd be willing to put up with. The car will never have anything stronger than pump gas, because it's just a street machine for me. I'm not going to suffer all the drawbacks of the 550hp 302's you guys deal/dealt with. If I'm going that hi I'm skipping the outdated, obsolete old 302 and just going with a Coyote and a roots type. Then I beat every car mentioned in this thread with great ease. And so why didn't I just go buy some s197 or whatever this new thing is. Why didn't I just skip the sn95 entirely.

Lastly, there seems to be a pretty big disagreement here when it comes to the potential power output of the sleep engine. You're saying 290hp, other people are saying 100 more at the wheels. Who's right and who is wrong? The cars were what... 220 for the HO 5.0?
Look at it this way, if you put the Trickflow heads/cam/intake/rockers on a stock 302 with headers and a tune, they advertise (and most people also achieve) is 350 flywheel HP (so roughly 300 to the wheels). You'd have to pay at least that much to *maybe* get 300 flywheel HP with the stock heads/intake/cam and then you'd still be behind that. Again, your money, go for it... but there will be next to nothing for resale value, unlike the Trickflow kit.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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You don't have to raise the hood or tell them anything 'cept 'put up or shut up'.
Just my opinion, for the money you'll spent to 'look stock' for a few brand x guys to point at and be amazed aint worth it. They won't be, they will shuffle their feet and come up with excuses.
Those brand x guys don't know what they are looking at anyway.
 
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bennylava

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Oct 18, 2017
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dart block will look stock,tkx 5 speed will hold up,lots of nitrous will help stock heads and intake.
DROP MIKE?KEYBOARD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hollow out a stock block. Insert electric motor inside. Bolt headers and accessories to the outside. Replace air pump and a 3hp electric motor to turn the belt for AC. Then when you beat people you can tell them the car wasn't even running.

It sounds stupid...but someone...somewhere....is probably working on a set up like this right now.

You could leave the engine bay dirty and completely stock looking. The sound would be terrible though.

DSS doesn’t make blocks . They are nothing more then stock blocks. You could stuff a dart in this tning and I’ll bet your friends wouldn’t know what they are looking at .

Again a big inch dart on even the wildest stock heads is a waste . I gave you some ways to achieve your goal . Again I bet no one will tell the difference between explorer gt40 and a stock upper as they are so close .

Either way best of luck on your cause

Headers are such an ubiquitous modification I don't think anyone would blink an eye at them, so I'm not sure why you'd want to keep the stockers if it's only going to be a for a few minutes of trolling. Otherwise, I don't think I can add anything more than what's already been suggested by others except to mention to not forget about the transmission, rear end and wheel size. Those factors wouldn't be outwardly identifiable and can completely change the car.

Look at it this way, if you put the Trickflow heads/cam/intake/rockers on a stock 302 with headers and a tune, they advertise (and most people also achieve) is 350 flywheel HP (so roughly 300 to the wheels). You'd have to pay at least that much to *maybe* get 300 flywheel HP with the stock heads/intake/cam and then you'd still be behind that. Again, your money, go for it... but there will be next to nothing for resale value, unlike the Trickflow kit.

Resale value isn't really my thing, as I tend to just keep cars/trucks forever if I really like them. After all, why not. You just miss them when they're gone. An SN95 in good shape will be worth a lot of money in 30 years. At which time I'll be a 60 year old retiree. So it will actually appreciate in value far beyond what I paid for the car, or any money I dumped into it. I got the car for cheap because it didn't run, but it was in good shape otherwise. Nice interior, nice exterior, never wrecked. If I keep it close to that (which I will) then it only goes up in value for me, not down. (it will stay garage kept) Maybe by the time I'm 60 I'll have had my fun with it, and I can sell it for some big chunk of change. Just look at the price of some 60 year old cars these days. It's a win/win. And if all you did was maximize the stock engine, you could say "Look! It's all original! What a cherry." Which will cause whoever is wanting to buy a 60 year old mustang to fap even harder and buy the car.

I went 13.20 @102mph with a stock 87 LX. UD pullies,10min tune up,3.73s,that's it. Completely stock exhaust too. Problem with the 94-95 cars,is they were turds. Funky ECU and they were portly. Good luck.

Well I'm not sure how much can be done about them being "portly" because I want to keep the stock interior. In fact I'll probably add weight to it by adding Resonix for sound deadening. Maybe an aluminum block and heads and driveshaft would help a bit. But I'm pretty sure the funky ECU gets tossed out the window when you start doing all manner of mods.
 

bennylava

Member
Oct 18, 2017
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dart block will look stock,tkx 5 speed will hold up,lots of nitrous will help stock heads and intake.
DROP MIKE?KEYBOARD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I had to make this post because "The time limit to edit this message has expired". So that's pretty lame, it jacked up my other post. Anyway someone said you might be able to hid nitrous lines by mashing them in with vacuum lines or some such. I'd be willing to make the attempt, and only use the nitrous during troll races. But can't you tell pretty easily when the other car is using nitrous?

Hollow out a stock block. Insert electric motor inside. Bolt headers and accessories to the outside. Replace air pump and a 3hp electric motor to turn the belt for AC. Then when you beat people you can tell them the car wasn't even running.

It sounds stupid...but someone...somewhere....is probably working on a set up like this right now.

You could leave the engine bay dirty and completely stock looking. The sound would be terrible though.

Thank you for that, I laughed so hard at this post. Then say "Imagine how badly you'd have lost if I actually started my engine!" :rlaugh:

Rig up some noise cancellation system like they put in those Acuras, to quiet any noise from the tesla motors.

I can just imagine their responses "What is this... wtf have you done.."

Again a big inch dart on even the wildest stock heads is a waste . I gave you some ways to achieve your goal . Again I bet no one will tell the difference between explorer gt40 and a stock upper as they are so close .

Either way best of luck on your cause

From this thread it sounds like the intake is the only weak link here. That's the thing that most people look at, and it's what a lot of guys know. Cause most people know about all the trick flows, the GT40 and cobra and explorer intakes. It was pretty much the weakest link for the GT's. As many have pointed out, if you have the time and the inclination you can just modify e7's yourself to be some pretty decent heads. But the intake is another matter, cause you'd never get all the way down inside all those runners. So you'd have to use extrude honing.

I am curious though, just how far the stock intake could be ported out before it becomes unusable. Eventually the walls get too thin and that's that. But how far is that? What intake would it match, if you ported it out as far as you could? Would it be better than a cobra intake at that point? This is all just curiosity.
 

bird_dog0347

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Resale value isn't really my thing, as I tend to just keep cars/trucks forever if I really like them. After all, why not. You just miss them when they're gone. An SN95 in good shape will be worth a lot of money in 30 years. At which time I'll be a 60 year old retiree. So it will actually appreciate in value far beyond what I paid for the car, or any money I dumped into it. I got the car for cheap because it didn't run, but it was in good shape otherwise. Nice interior, nice exterior, never wrecked. If I keep it close to that (which I will) then it only goes up in value for me, not down. (it will stay garage kept) Maybe by the time I'm 60 I'll have had my fun with it, and I can sell it for some big chunk of change. Just look at the price of some 60 year old cars these days. It's a win/win. And if all you did was maximize the stock engine, you could say "Look! It's all original! What a cherry." Which will cause whoever is wanting to buy a 60 year old mustang to fap even harder and buy the car.
I was talking about resale value of the engine parts after you've spent the money and enjoyed the disappointment, then decided to to it right and upgrade the heads/cam/intake/exhaust to something that can actually make decent power and put a smile on your face. As for the last part, if you're willing to take something, make it NOT original, then in 30 years try to pass it off as all original to an unsuspecting buyer... you're a douchenozzle.

I had to make this post because "The time limit to edit this message has expired". So that's pretty lame, it jacked up my other post. Anyway someone said you might be able to hid nitrous lines by mashing them in with vacuum lines or some such. I'd be willing to make the attempt, and only use the nitrous during troll races. But can't you tell pretty easily when the other car is using nitrous?



Thank you for that, I laughed so hard at this post. Then say "Imagine how badly you'd have lost if I actually started my engine!" :rlaugh:

Rig up some noise cancellation system like they put in those Acuras, to quiet any noise from the tesla motors.

I can just imagine their responses "What is this... wtf have you done.."



From this thread it sounds like the intake is the only weak link here. That's the thing that most people look at, and it's what a lot of guys know. Cause most people know about all the trick flows, the GT40 and cobra and explorer intakes. It was pretty much the weakest link for the GT's. As many have pointed out, if you have the time and the inclination you can just modify e7's yourself to be some pretty decent heads. But the intake is another matter, cause you'd never get all the way down inside all those runners. So you'd have to use extrude honing.

I am curious though, just how far the stock intake could be ported out before it becomes unusable. Eventually the walls get too thin and that's that. But how far is that? What intake would it match, if you ported it out as far as you could? Would it be better than a cobra intake at that point? This is all just curiosity.

It's pretty clear you're either not listening, or not understanding, or don't care... but I'll try one last time. The stock combo, no matter how hard you try or how much money you throw at it will be very limited. You're effectively trying to recreate the exact same thing everyone did in the mid to late 1980's when there wasn't a lot of aftermarket parts available to make them fast. It isn't just the intake that is the bottle neck, it's actually mainly the heads and the cam... neither of which are easy to hide other than as already previously mentioned, going with GT-40 heads. The GT-40 iron heads are difficult to identify on a fully dressed engine, but will give plenty of extra power, not as much as say a set of aluminum TFS or AFR heads, but enough to be worth it when you want it to look stock,

Again, it's your money, do as you please... but ask yourself if it's worth $10k just to lie to people you don't know and don't care about and then still be disappointed in the engine performance?
 
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ChillPhatCat

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To hammer one other point that was previously made. It is very unlikely that you'll encounter anyone that even knows what they are looking at. If you don't change the upper intake, nobody will even understand it's modded... the most attention you'll get is from headers, but even then a lot of people won't suspect anything beyond exhaust work. Don't put a huge loud exhaust on it, don't put on any crazy X-Pipes, and you'll probably pass for stock... or at the very least, unknown mods. For the money spent to get mediocre results you can get fantastic results with dropping the trolling and just keeping your mouth shut about mods. Keep the stock parts for 30 years down the road when a mostly original car is going to fetch coin.
 
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