How to drag race your classic
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washMO66
Founding Member
I'm relaxed, didn't mean it to sound harsh fella's.... Its all good and Rusty was right, was just joking around...
Next time I'll put a smiley face up. like this
Next time I'll put a smiley face up. like this
BullittStangV8
Founding Member
Gimme about a week or two. Gonna try something I was reading. Almost have the new setup ready to go. I'm hoping it will work reall well. Would like to see mid 1.4 60ft times.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Learned that the Shelby drop is all wrong for dragging. It helped give me a total of 6 1/2-7" of lift, with the uncut 6 cyl springs and Summit 90/10's. It also made the wheels hang funny while accelerating.
I reinstalled the upper A arm in the original holes and the front of the car raised up 1" higher at rest and remains that way--so, in my opinion, the Shelby drop DOES help drop the front end 1". Absolutely no other changes were made to the front suspension. It is very noticeable, and actually I am happier now as the tires do not rub anymore. Now frontal lift is a measured 5 1/2-6" which is much more tolerable. The car now steers better throughout the quarter.
With Shelby drop:
I also determined that when the car seems squirrelly during the run due to poor track, if you increase the stiffness on the rear shocks it goes away. I now have the tires biting so hard, the Centerforce DF clutch wants to slip during the beginning of the run. This problem reared its ugly head when I went from a 3:70 gear to a 4.11 and lost lower 1/8 mile times. It makes up for it in the remaining part of the 1/4 mile and I end up with similiar MPH's as before.
Here is a more recent shot without the Shelby drop:
My hunt now is for some better front shocks that will let the front end come back down. Seems that the best shock for this is no longer made. I am also considering the Calvert Mono-spring for the rear over the 5 leafs.
Anyone know of a good street/strip clutch with soft pedal?????
I reinstalled the upper A arm in the original holes and the front of the car raised up 1" higher at rest and remains that way--so, in my opinion, the Shelby drop DOES help drop the front end 1". Absolutely no other changes were made to the front suspension. It is very noticeable, and actually I am happier now as the tires do not rub anymore. Now frontal lift is a measured 5 1/2-6" which is much more tolerable. The car now steers better throughout the quarter.
With Shelby drop:
I also determined that when the car seems squirrelly during the run due to poor track, if you increase the stiffness on the rear shocks it goes away. I now have the tires biting so hard, the Centerforce DF clutch wants to slip during the beginning of the run. This problem reared its ugly head when I went from a 3:70 gear to a 4.11 and lost lower 1/8 mile times. It makes up for it in the remaining part of the 1/4 mile and I end up with similiar MPH's as before.
Here is a more recent shot without the Shelby drop:
My hunt now is for some better front shocks that will let the front end come back down. Seems that the best shock for this is no longer made. I am also considering the Calvert Mono-spring for the rear over the 5 leafs.
Anyone know of a good street/strip clutch with soft pedal?????
The "Shelby"/Arning drop wasn't designed for drag racing, it was designed for handling. Its no suprize it hurt your drag times because it would make weight transfer to the rear harder and provably decrease your anti-squat.
If you left those holes open in the shock tower I would either weld them back up or make some sort of steel bushing to bolt back in the hole to give the shock towers back the strength they are missing from the extra holes in them. Also, if you havn't already done so, welding the seems on the shock tower would be a good idea since you are at least unloading the suspension to near fully unloaded and when you come back down on it, its provably somewhat hard. Those shock towers could use the reinforcement to prevent cracking.
If you left those holes open in the shock tower I would either weld them back up or make some sort of steel bushing to bolt back in the hole to give the shock towers back the strength they are missing from the extra holes in them. Also, if you havn't already done so, welding the seems on the shock tower would be a good idea since you are at least unloading the suspension to near fully unloaded and when you come back down on it, its provably somewhat hard. Those shock towers could use the reinforcement to prevent cracking.
BullittStangV8
Founding Member
What kinda brakes are you guys running in your higher hp/lower ET cars? I'm going to have to go to disks with the car hopefully heading for the 11's, and was wondering if the granada swap w. manual disks would be enough to slow this sled down?
I think this was in the beginning of the thread somewhere.
Going to those gears should be much easier on the clutch, where you spinning that bad before hand ?
You are problaby going to need to go down to a slower shock. Without strapping the front end, and having a shock that loose and the power your making, it's not going to come down. I never did get mine down until I put in a different shock. If you do it will help in more than one way. The nose won't stay up. If it's hooking that great, you can possbily see even more reduction in the 60ft because you aren't wasting time lifting the front end that could be better used going forward.
As you make more power, it seems you need a stiffer shock. N?A 90/10's worked for me, but nose up. Added 7 psi and it became scary. Swithced to stiffer shock and it became controllable ride again with the nose down. Upped it to 12 psi and the nose is up ans scary again. Time to strap it.
Bullit, the Granada works fine for me. I shoulda been around the high 10 area. It's getting alittle harder now with more, but the shut downs here are kinda short, and I don't like to STOMP on the brakes.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Thanks for the input 10sec.
I discovered that currently there are no "good" shocks made for the front of a Mustang. There used to be a Carrera shock that was recommended, but QA1 bought them out and discontinued that line. The Carrera shock was supposed to initially lift and then allow the front to settle back down. I can't afford the stiff price of a couple of QA1's so for now I need to stick with my Summits, which are set for a supposed 90/10. I could try a stiffer setting to see if it helps any.
Good news is that Calvert is soon to be testing a new shock that they designed and it will be built for them by Monroe. It is supposed to be a "true" 90/10 shock that will perform at least on par with the old Carrera design. The front will go up and then settle back down as desired by Calvert for use with the Caltracs. Price is supposed to be somewhat reasonable at $55 a shock. I've got my name on their list.
As far as the clutch, I've purchased a new one and will soon install it. I cannot tell you for sure if it was slipping before because for all intents and purposes it seems fine on the street with normal tires and at launch with the sticky QTP's. It is somewhere between the fairly consistent 1.72x second sixties and the 1/8 mile that the car seems to fall behind. Once in 4th (hopefully before the 1/8 mile marker) the MPH picks up. It does seem that as the evening goes one and I make more runs that the overall MPH decrease.
Here is the rear digging in last week:
The carras are the ones I was running that didn't allow it to come down(Lowering the front of the car may help). Summits are the ones I have now set to I think as stiff as the go. I talked to Jon Calvert a few years ago when I bought the shocks. They were the closest thing he could find to a "true" 90/10 shock (in his own independent testing) . Most companies don't have then for guys like me that can't read" for off-road use only". If what you have works, I wouldn't dream of using a faster shock.
It looks like from the pic you have an abundance of traction.
It looks like from the pic you have an abundance of traction.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Body Separation
Could somebody explain the concept of body separation as it relates to drag racing. What is it? Is it a good or bad thing? Are we talking the front or the rear of the car (or both?)
Any examples (pics) or web sites that explain it without going to much over my head would be helpful.
Could somebody explain the concept of body separation as it relates to drag racing. What is it? Is it a good or bad thing? Are we talking the front or the rear of the car (or both?)
Any examples (pics) or web sites that explain it without going to much over my head would be helpful.
BullittStangV8
Founding Member
dennis hardcore50.com has some really good articles/tech info on its reading page. not ness. in the forums (you can do a search and find threads tho) about body movement, center of grav., weight transfer, ect. that would be good to read if it pertains to that type of thing.
Mike
Mike
blown65
Founding Member
Bringing the back to the top. Helped my 60's a ton.
Chassis shop here in town actually sets the bars up a tad different than what Calvert does. They do sell them and he is a real smart guy too.
Anyhow, they set mine at 50 thousands clearance between the roller and the monoleafs. Shocks are set on 6 right now. I haven't messed with the settings he did yet, but Ill prob play with the shock values first and see how it reacts to it. 1.51 has been the best 60'. On a good prepped track it will def make the 1.4's without an issue.
Front shocks are the Summit ones. My gripe with them is getting the settings right with them. I dunno if mine are crap or what, but even doing what the instructions say, it seems each setting is the same, and then boom, you get a different one. They suck IMO. I'm probably going to get the set from Calvert and be done with these summit ones. That and the roller pearches.
Anyhow, this really should be a sticky.
great thread and very helpful.
Chassis shop here in town actually sets the bars up a tad different than what Calvert does. They do sell them and he is a real smart guy too.
Anyhow, they set mine at 50 thousands clearance between the roller and the monoleafs. Shocks are set on 6 right now. I haven't messed with the settings he did yet, but Ill prob play with the shock values first and see how it reacts to it. 1.51 has been the best 60'. On a good prepped track it will def make the 1.4's without an issue.
Front shocks are the Summit ones. My gripe with them is getting the settings right with them. I dunno if mine are crap or what, but even doing what the instructions say, it seems each setting is the same, and then boom, you get a different one. They suck IMO. I'm probably going to get the set from Calvert and be done with these summit ones. That and the roller pearches.
Anyhow, this really should be a sticky.
great thread and very helpful.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Aw, old post brought back from the dead.
Your 60'ers are impressive, as is your car.
You are very lucky to have a knowledgeable chassis shop that knows Caltracs.
Our local shops only know how to make a car turn left (dirt trackers.) 
Allowing some clearance, in this case .050, makes the tires hit harder than the Calvert recommended setting (IIRC is 1/2 turn snug.) Snugging up more turns softens the hit even more.
Just curious, are your Caltracs installed in the upward pivot hole? Again that helps the tires to hit harder. Usually good for an automatic.
I swapped to the Calvert shocks and believe they improved street driving. They do rise quickly at the track, but settle down quickly too. Since I have other suspension issues this year (50 more HP), I really do not have a firm thumbs up or down on the shocks just yet.
Happy Racing!!!!!!!
Your 60'ers are impressive, as is your car.
You are very lucky to have a knowledgeable chassis shop that knows Caltracs.
Our local shops only know how to make a car turn left (dirt trackers.) Allowing some clearance, in this case .050, makes the tires hit harder than the Calvert recommended setting (IIRC is 1/2 turn snug.) Snugging up more turns softens the hit even more.
Just curious, are your Caltracs installed in the upward pivot hole? Again that helps the tires to hit harder. Usually good for an automatic.
I swapped to the Calvert shocks and believe they improved street driving. They do rise quickly at the track, but settle down quickly too. Since I have other suspension issues this year (50 more HP), I really do not have a firm thumbs up or down on the shocks just yet.
Happy Racing!!!!!!!
blown65
Founding Member
I6 front coil springs...
Spring rates according to npdlink.com catalog:
NPD, Item#: 5310-1
NPD, application: 1965 with 170, 200, 260 & 289. 1966 with 200
NPD, Description: COIL SPRING SET, FRONT, RATED AT 258 LB/IN @9.00 , 1540# LOAD $43,95
NPD, Item#: 5310-2
NPD, application: 1966 with 289
NPD, Description: COIL SPRING SET, FRONT, RATED AT 291 LB/IN @9.00 , 1661# LOAD
Spring rates according to npdlink.com catalog:
NPD, Item#: 5310-1
NPD, application: 1965 with 170, 200, 260 & 289. 1966 with 200
NPD, Description: COIL SPRING SET, FRONT, RATED AT 258 LB/IN @9.00 , 1540# LOAD $43,95
NPD, Item#: 5310-2
NPD, application: 1966 with 289
NPD, Description: COIL SPRING SET, FRONT, RATED AT 291 LB/IN @9.00 , 1661# LOAD
dennis112
15 Year Member
Fresh post, fresh info for stick cars.
After playing around on a slippery non-prepped track all summer, I decided to retune my suspension differently as all the tricks I was using before really weren't working on my toploader car. Instead of doing just one change at a time (like you are supposed to do), I made several changes so as to start an all new baseline.
First I bought new 26x10x15S MT ET drag slicks. Note the "S" on the end which stands for Stiff Sidewalls. After lots of research of other manual transmission cars, I discovered that the Stiff Sidewalls work very well in that application. Previously I had been using regular 26x10x15's MT ET slicks with only limited success. These things are great and they do not waddle like the old slicks would in the pits plus the car feels much safer on the upper end of the track.
I discovered through some videos that both my rear tires had some serious wheel hop and stiffening the rear shocks did not help, even though I have Caltracs. I decided to drop my Caltrac bars to the lower-most setting to soften the hit, plus I also adjusted the preload to 1/4 turn on both sides.
The final thing that I did, kid you not, was to put 50lbs of sand in the rearmost part of trunk under the spare tire.
The result of those 3 changes was that I can now launch at a much higher RPM and the car seems to jump out of the hole when the clutch is dropped. My 60'ers went from typical 1.72's or so down to the low 1.6 range and I have touched the 1.5's several times with a best of 1.581. I feel that is pretty darn good for an NA stick street/strip car. An added benefit has been that my ET's have also improved tremendously--they were in the 11.6-11.7 range all year, and now I have had several 11.25-11.27's runs.
A negative from the increased traction is that I went through a period of breaking the drivetrain on every outing. The first weekend I twisted the input shaft to the SB toploader. I replaced it and went racing the next week only to twist both 31 spline axles and break my 9" True Trac. I bought new 33 spline axles and a spool, put it all together again, and twisted yet another input shaft on my first launch. I seriously think that I am getting decent traction now. LOL
After playing around on a slippery non-prepped track all summer, I decided to retune my suspension differently as all the tricks I was using before really weren't working on my toploader car. Instead of doing just one change at a time (like you are supposed to do), I made several changes so as to start an all new baseline.
First I bought new 26x10x15S MT ET drag slicks. Note the "S" on the end which stands for Stiff Sidewalls. After lots of research of other manual transmission cars, I discovered that the Stiff Sidewalls work very well in that application. Previously I had been using regular 26x10x15's MT ET slicks with only limited success. These things are great and they do not waddle like the old slicks would in the pits plus the car feels much safer on the upper end of the track.
I discovered through some videos that both my rear tires had some serious wheel hop and stiffening the rear shocks did not help, even though I have Caltracs. I decided to drop my Caltrac bars to the lower-most setting to soften the hit, plus I also adjusted the preload to 1/4 turn on both sides.
The final thing that I did, kid you not, was to put 50lbs of sand in the rearmost part of trunk under the spare tire.
The result of those 3 changes was that I can now launch at a much higher RPM and the car seems to jump out of the hole when the clutch is dropped. My 60'ers went from typical 1.72's or so down to the low 1.6 range and I have touched the 1.5's several times with a best of 1.581. I feel that is pretty darn good for an NA stick street/strip car. An added benefit has been that my ET's have also improved tremendously--they were in the 11.6-11.7 range all year, and now I have had several 11.25-11.27's runs.
A negative from the increased traction is that I went through a period of breaking the drivetrain on every outing. The first weekend I twisted the input shaft to the SB toploader. I replaced it and went racing the next week only to twist both 31 spline axles and break my 9" True Trac. I bought new 33 spline axles and a spool, put it all together again, and twisted yet another input shaft on my first launch. I seriously think that I am getting decent traction now. LOL
