how to identify 351w as opposed to a 302 or 289?

vin1382 · Feb 19, 2004

How can i be absolutly certain my 1970 mach 1 has 351w and not a 289 or 302? I heard they look very similar.. just want to make sure some moron didnt plant a 302 in there for some reason!

bnickel · Feb 19, 2004

if you look at the front of the block on the driver side where the timing cover is, a 351 will have an extra reinforcement cast in to the block, it will angle up from the very front of the timing cover to the intake sealing surface, i can't find a good pic, or i would post it.other than that the 351w is quite a bit wider than a 289/302, hope that helps

Edbert · Feb 19, 2004

The deck height of the 351W is almost an inch higher than the 289/302. This cuases the heads to be forther apart, just over half an inch on each side. So the manifold is about 1.5 inches wider where it meets the heads. If you cannot judge by the width (and many cannot if they are not side by side), then look at the area where the distributor comes out of the block.

If the visible base of the distributor is about even with the bottom of the intake manifold it is a 289/302. If it is about an inch BELOW the bottom of the intake manifold it is a 351W. Wont even get into FEs and Clevelands here since they are more easily distinguished

351LX · Feb 19, 2004

I usually look at the thermostat housing.On a 302 the lower bolt is behind the front cover so you need a wrench to get at it but on a 351w with the higher deck you can get at the lower thermostat housing bolt with a socket as it is above the front cover.

Lswhat · Feb 19, 2004

one intake is like a 11 inches and one is 13 inches across or mybe 13 and 15 something like that.

69stang351 · Feb 21, 2004

also isnt the firing order different?? just guessing here, but i think this is true...

brianj5600 · Feb 21, 2004

Depends on the cam.

67coupe351w · Feb 22, 2004

First off, changing a cam is not going to change your firing order "Depends on the cam"...

The easiest way to tell if its a 289/302 or a 351w is to look at the front of the block. Notice the timing chain cover behind the water pump, on either the left or right side to the farthest extremity of the waterpump there is a long bolt that continues through the timing chain cover and into the block. look at the block at this point. On a 289/302 this point is flush with the deck of the block (the surface the head mounts against). On the 351w there is about an inch of material (along the direction of piston travel) until you get to the deck surface.

I hope that makes sense, its perfectly clear in my mind

D.Hearne · Feb 22, 2004

The early 351W's also have 16 intake bolts as opposed to 12 for the 289-302's. The extra bolts are right next to the end ones in all four corners.

Mosse · Feb 22, 2004

check this out:

http://www.wrljet.com/fordv8/small.html

The firing order depends on the cam. There is much better after market availability of cams with firing order of 289 or 302 (not HO), so it may or may not have the original firing order.

classic boost · Feb 23, 2004

67coupe351w said:
First off, changing a cam is not going to change your firing order "Depends on the cam"...

yes, it does.

Edbert · Feb 23, 2004

Not only the cam but the crank will change firing order right? It seems that the pistons would need to be in the right place at the right time no? Or was the firing order change so slight that they both used the same crank?

I have to put one more sentence in here so I have one that is not a question. Or do I?

Pakrat · Feb 23, 2004

67coupe351w said:
First off, changing a cam is not going to change your firing order "Depends on the cam"...

Second off, um, yeah it most certainly can. So.........would this be your first mustang?

ratio411 · Feb 23, 2004

Edbert said:
Not only the cam but the crank will change firing order right?

No, the crank does not change in this case.
The reason Ford changed the firing order was to spread out the stress on the crank. The original SBF order had one journal taking a beating. I don't have the specifics in my head right now, but that is the jist of it.
By camming the engine so that one of the power strokes on this journal would now be an exhaust stroke, it balanced the force applied to the crank and supposedly added durability/longevity.
FWIW, next SBF I build will use a 351 firing order along with good rod bolts and main studs. This will make for a nearly bulletproof bottom end for a street engine with it's tiny 3" stroke. IMHO
Dave

D.Hearne · Feb 23, 2004

It wasn't one journal taking a beating, it was two; the 2/6 journal and the 3/7 one. But now that I think about it, those same journals still get hammered with the different order, just in reverse order.

67coupe351w · Feb 24, 2004

Pakrat said:
Second off, um, yeah it most certainly can. So.........would this be your first mustang?

Oh looky me im so cool. Pakrat yur an as$. I knew a 289/302 cam would fit in the block but Id never had guessed it would be compatible with the crank.

But seriously, thats really interesting.

Pakrat · Feb 24, 2004

You come in with an affirmative "First off let me correct you all as I know exactly what I am talking about statement" but I'm the a$$??????? Too funny. At least I'm not a dumba$$ then. If you hadn't sounded so snippy in your jerk tone like there was no way you were wrong I would likely have said nothing, and I point out that at least I ended it with a friendly tongue sticking out unlike yourself. Just because you're mad at yourself for f**king up and getting called on it, don't blame it on me.

You should seriously either consider being sure before you speak from now on or at least learn to take a frickin' joke and friendly kidding for pete's sake.

bnickel · Feb 24, 2004

pak your such an a$$, and you know it, don't try to deny it, you know what they say denial is the first sign

Pakrat · Feb 25, 2004

Hey 2cents from a nickel, what a surpirse.

Look, I've worked very hard for several years at being a dick, and not you or anyone is going to demote me back to a$$, got it? :damnit:

68stang351 · Feb 25, 2004

Pakrat said:
Hey 2cents from a nickel, what a surpirse.

Look, I've worked very hard for several years at being a dick, and not you or anyone is going to demote me back to a$$, got it? :damnit:

I'm still in the lowly ranks of "butthole", but I'm working on a promotion.

how to identify 351w as opposed to a 302 or 289?

vin1382

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