I Dont Get Custom Cam Idea
- Thread starter 89llx
- Start date
-
Sponsors (?)
Think of it this way.
You goto Target and pick up a suit that fits while you check yourself out in the mirror doing muscle man poses.
You goto an actual suit store and get fitted and they alter it to fit your man boobies.
It's for your given application.
You goto Target and pick up a suit that fits while you check yourself out in the mirror doing muscle man poses.
You goto an actual suit store and get fitted and they alter it to fit your man boobies.
It's for your given application.
interesting comparison B, but correct. take comp cams for instance. they make a lot of different grinds, but because they are a large volume manufacturer, and as such, they produce a lot fo grinds that while well engineered, and well though out, are compromises in the end. they dont take into account what the end user is going for with their build, and they assume essentially bolt on unmodified parts. a custom grinder on the other hand can take the time to create a specific grind to fit your particular build, but only your particular build.
in some cases a custom cam grind can make an additional 20-30hp over an off the shelf cam, in the same rpm range.
in some cases a custom cam grind can make an additional 20-30hp over an off the shelf cam, in the same rpm range.
On a healthy bottom end with good supporting mods, that cam is very good for that combo.
Still doesn't change what those guys said.
Still doesn't change what those guys said.
there again, you get a cam, heads and intake that are "matched" to work together, with in the bounds of production volumes. remember that trick flow is also a high volume manufacturer, and has certain constraints on how closely they can match components.
and they match them by the projected rpm range they will be used in, and again are designed for out of the box usage.
As a total sum, across the entire power band maybe, but If someone is picking up 20-30hp at peak simply because they've swapped out their off the shelf cam, for a custom one, then its probably because they picked the wrong off the shelf grind to work with their combo to start with.
The difference in horsepower should be fairly minimal with a cam swap. The purpose of a custom cam grind should done so in order to improve general over all drivability and normalize the power curve throughout the RPM range IMO.
Quite the contrary... I will preface this first by saying that I am a very extreme case:
Beginning of last season I has swapped cams in my 438" Windsor. The original cam while making pretty sick hp wasn't exactly designed to maximize my engine combo. I had a new cam ground and picked up 115 rwhp, no that isn't a typo. We netted a gain of 8% power at the rear tires making 1,327 rwhp previously and 1,442 rwhp after the swap. The only appreciable difference was the cam change.
If a properly designed custom cam can make 8% more power on a 300 hp motor ( which I don't think is totally un plausible) you could see a net increase of 24 Hp
What you are saying is absolutely true. Returning to the TrickFlow scenario: If I were taking the previously mentioned top end end kit and putting on a rebuilt 302 or 306, I might be hard pressed to find a better cam for the street.
However...
Maybe I want to road the car and keep it spinning up top
Perhaps I've got a particular set of gears and transmission and want my power band at x RPM
I could have changed the displacemnet
added a blower or turbo
have a number of other changes that may make for better cam selection than what I can get off the shelf.
To the OP: Keep in mind that what he's talking about will scale with the power being produced. That 8% he's talking about is really the key. Like anything else, there's a cost benefit to factor in. Is the additional cash worth the benefit? Depends on the build.
Edit: One other thing that might be worthy of note. A custome cam doesn't always mean that this cam was especially cut and is the only one like it (although these do exist). A custom cam means that someone took the time to gather all the pertinent information about the engine combo and goals and SELECTED the best cam for that combo. If after calculations are complete, he can turn around and pick up a cam with the required specs from the shelf, then that's your custom cam. Other times, those specs may not be readily available and something has to be cut.
Last edited:
denny wykopf, my high performance engines instructor in college, developed a cam program that would take all the engine build parameters, and design a cam on the computer for that particular engine. when compared to various cams designed for the same rpm range, the custom grind picked up power and torque at all rpms, over every similar off the shelf grind.sometimes as much as 50hp.
this is what a proper custom grind can do for you.
this is what a proper custom grind can do for you.
Some custom cams are common, the problem is that they don't have a designated part number, for example an e303 cam.
So to get one you have to know the specs, then be a dealer that calls say comp cams and orders those specs. For sure they have done that cam before but without a part number you can't just grab if off the shelf at summit racing. The cam companies don't necessarily know what parts you have or why you need those specs, but they don't really care.
It's really just a racket to ring up a much more expensive sale.
Even worse, try to sell a custom cam you bought, you damn near have to give it away.
A custom cam is at least a $200 add on, and just like everything else out there, the money is all in the extras.
The cam is so deep in the engine, I just prefer custom, yup it costs double, but I really don't like even the idea of pulling the cam out because I was cheap.
So to get one you have to know the specs, then be a dealer that calls say comp cams and orders those specs. For sure they have done that cam before but without a part number you can't just grab if off the shelf at summit racing. The cam companies don't necessarily know what parts you have or why you need those specs, but they don't really care.
It's really just a racket to ring up a much more expensive sale.
Even worse, try to sell a custom cam you bought, you damn near have to give it away.
A custom cam is at least a $200 add on, and just like everything else out there, the money is all in the extras.
The cam is so deep in the engine, I just prefer custom, yup it costs double, but I really don't like even the idea of pulling the cam out because I was cheap.
While I agree with most of what you stated I do want to clear up the "cost" issue. A custom grind doesn't cost twice as much as an ots grind in most cases. For example a common price point for most company's is around 280$(Not the FMS grinds). Now my custom billet core cost 402$ to my door. So yes they're more expensive but I'll have a professional select/design my cam every time for such a minor price difference. Just my .02
E303 cam specs are readily available, in fact ALL the ford cam specs are available, check this out;
SMALL BLOCK V-8 HYDRAULIC ROLLER TAPPET CAMSHAFTS | Part Details for M-6250-E303 | Ford Performance Racing Parts
scroll down until you get to the specs and find the E303 cam.
and by the way, every cam manufacturer lists the specs for the cams they sell.
wrong again. while some manufacturers will charge extra for a custom grind, as i recall comp cams charges $100 extra, there are cam grinders that will NOT charge extra for a custom grind, clay smith comes to mind.
mikestang63
SN Certified Technician
I'd be very curious for someone to do a side by side test with a good OTS cam, say a TFS1, TFS2 , crane extreme 264, 270 and then a custom cam.
Nearly impossible test to run. Someone who knows cam design very well can pick an OTS cam that's going to be very close to one he might design.
If that portion is true, it's going to reduce the margin of improvement for the custom cut pieces.
I still maintain that custom cams in many circumstances is as much about selection as it is about cutting a one-off.
As would I. I think far too many on this site are unable to see that there's a difference between an OTS cam and a "poorly selected" OTS cam.
It's like the guy who goes out and buys an X303 because it's the raunchiest, most aggressive camshaft that Ford sells and stuffs it into a stock short block, only to find out his car now runs like crap and get's beat all the time? Instead of properly researching all of the offerings by different manufacturers available out there (and there are literally hundreds of them folks), picking one best suited to his needs like he should have, he went with the "bigger is better" approach and ended up with a dud.
Instead of learning the craft and putting the time and effort into understand camshaft dynamics and how they work in relation to the rest of his engine components, in order to correct his mistake....he's sour on pre selected camshaft profiles altogether and decides that the only way to remedy his mistake, would be to go the "custom route".
Quite frankly, I think the term is being thrown around out of laziness more than anything else. It's much easier on ones pride to say "I went with a custom grind, because off the shelf cams are no good", than it is to say "I really just don't know what I'm doing when it comes to picking a camshaft and am gonna let someone else do it for me". After all, the term "custom cam" just rolls right off the tongue when naming off the laundry list of ones parts to your buddies on the internet, right? If nothing else, it makes your car sound far more brag worthy and makes you feel and sound like you've really got something special under the hood.
I guess what I'm saying is that custom cams have their place in more radical, off the wall, or high horsepower combinations....but I'll bet 90% of the owners of cars on the forum probably wont notice a lick of difference between a properly selected OTS cam and a fancy custom one. IMO, many are just going to vote for the one they're told is custom regardless of how it performs, simply out of recognition of the term.
