I want to 'downgrade' to a v6, tell me what you think

[wicked93gs]

well, heres the deal...the car currently has no engine or transmission, its a c code coupe, now my plan for the car is to start with a v6 engine...more specifically a 89-95 Taurus SHO engine...24 valve DOHC v6 making some 220HP and 220 ft/lbs....stock redline of 7k RPM, thats the basic engine I want(and yes, having owned a SHO I know its a very high maitenence engine) anyway, I would use an Aerostar bellhousing to convert the engine to RWD, use an adapter plate to mate up to the T4 toploader(overkill for the SHO engine, but I'll never have to worry about the tranny holding up again)...anyway, eventual plans for the engine would be a twin turbo setup using garret t3 turbos from a XR4TI pushing some 10-12 lbs of boost(more if I ever decide to build the engine) final power output should be in the range of 320HP or so...all with about 27mpg or so...I was wondering though if the toploader has any trouble shifting at high RPM since I plan on eventually raising the rev limiter to 8k

 

[68torinogt]

i would look at a 3.8 from a supercoupe or a 4.2 and look at this site http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/

 

[68torinogt]

and i like the idea of some hotrod 6 cylinders out there i like them

 

[wicked93gs]

I like the Supercoupe engines, but having owned enough other DOHC 4 valve cars, I have become addicted I'm afraid, I would like a cobra/markviii engine but they are just too heavy(and wide) for what I want..my other options being a 3.0 Duratec v6...or my personal favorite...though impossible to get is an 02-up australian made ford falcon XR6 DOHC inline six turbo makings some 320HP and 360ft/lbs(this would be choice #1 if I could get my hands on one for $3000 or less)

 

[68torinogt]

i have seen the inline engines make lots of power but you should look for the engines in the sprint cars, but i think they are 4 cyl.
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[Hack]

Sounds like a fun project! I don't think a stock toploader will shift at that high an rpm, though.

 

[wicked93gs]

hmm, maybe I'll have to go to a T5 after all(though I hear they have problems shifting up high too) or whichever trannies the DOHC cobra uses ...though that seems rather expensive...but it may not come to that...I'm making inquires for an XR6 engine and bellhousing...which has a redline of 5700ish RPM(strange engine for an inline 6...makes its 360ft/lbs at 2000RPM, like a V8) well, I shall see I guess...either an XR6 or an SHO engine would make me happy...though an XR6 engine would fit with more space

 

[68torinogt]

that means more space for a turbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MitchGT]

I think the rpm at which you can shift is dependant on what style clutch you use (Long, diaphram, etc.). There may be more to it than that, but I think if you have the right type of clutch release mechanism you can shift pretty high.

 

[tylerrocks]

stock t-5 wont shift that high either due to the sharp angle of the helical(sp?) gears.

 

[D.Hearne]

The Toploader has been raced and shifted at those rpms for decades. It would have no problems with a DOHC V6.

 

[Max Power]

If you are doing it just for mileage, you will be spending enough money to negate the benefits for years. If your doing it for fun, it will be a lot of work but could be pretty cool.

 

[68keyblr]

i have seen the inline engines make lots of power but you should look for the engines in the sprint cars, but i think they are 4 cyl.
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Naw, the sprints are 200 ci inline 6's. Got one in the wifey's '67 vert. There are some good sites out there to hop it up:

http://www.fordsix.com/

http://www.classicinlines.com/

 

[wicked93gs]

I'm doing it for fun of course...I swap all my cars for fun, mileage is a nice bonus though, I also want a nice smooth modern engine though....if the 200ci sprint engine had a DOHC aluminum head available for it, then I would jump on that as well, as far as expense goes...if I go with an SHO engine it wont cost me much, I can pick one up for about $800 with 60k miles locally($400 for one with 80k)...find a toploader for $400 or so, an aerostar bellhousing for $40, $300 for a custom adapter plate...weld up the mounts myself and I am done except for engine control...but I already have a standalone for that...or maybe just get a SHO computer too...I understand it uses a standard Ford harness of the time(like a 5.0 conversion) but the whole thing would be less than $2000 to get it in and running...the XR6 engine would be considerably more...but very much more unique...and while I dont THINK I would have to notch the shock towers for an SHO engine, I know I wouldnt have to for a straight 6


p.s. if I did use the SHO engine I could use a liscence plate border that says "Powered by Yamaha" which would be pretty funny(Yamaha made the SHO engines for ford...they did a good job too....if only they werent so high maitenence...you have to do rather major service work to them every 60k miles, shimming valvesprings, t-belt, pulleys, etc)

 

[65ShelbyClone]

I was wondering though if the toploader has any trouble shifting at high RPM since I plan on eventually raising the rev limiter to 8k

Racers have been putting toploaders behind engines that wind higher than that Yamaha 6 since the toploader was introduced. No problem, but I really think a T5 will be better, if not easier. It bolts to that Aerostar bell, right? Good luck finding a toploader that you'd want to use for $400. That Yamaha probably won't make 300lbs of torque and an early Mustang is lighter than Fox3, so strength won't be a big issue.

I had dreams of putting an SVO engine in a Pinto(with a prybar), but I figured a 2.3T would be smaller and easier to get lots of power out of, but not as good sounding or unique. I still want to do the swap, but into an early '70s Capri instead. A 4.0 pushrod V6 would be cool, too.

 

[Ronstang]

Is this just currently an "idea" or have you done any real work on the project? My question to you is have you done any investigation farther than finding that you can use a Windstar bellhousing with a 1 inch spacer....for which you will also need a 94/95 input shaft and support?

The reason I ask is because I have been planning to do this swap into a 66 coupe for several years. I have a mock up engine on a stand at the moment and a good running one still in the complete car. I have done some measuring and there are going to be a bunch of issues you will need to resolve.

1. The engine is so short the accessories will be right where the shock towers are and thus you either need to repackage the accessories or remove the shock towers and move to a Mustang II front suspension.

2. The oil pan is cast aluminum, bolts to the bellhousing along with the block, and is rear sump. It is deep and will not only hit the crossmember but the steering. A completely new oil pan will need to be designed and fabricated.

3. The thermostat housing sticks right out the back of the engine over the transmission and the entire system will have to be redesigned to move it to the front. This will involve studying the flow of the water through the engine or you will create a HUGE problem.

4. The intake will have to be swapped 180 degrees. To do this you will either have to use spacer blocks between the heads and the intake to raise it high enough to clear the timing belt cover or you will have to notch the cover.

Those are just a few of the issues I see as the "BIG" hurdles to making this a successful swap. I have the benefit of access to a complete machine shop so I will be able to easily make anything I design. I have a 65 shell now that I will use to see how everything is going to fit and what might need to be cut or relocated on the car. This way I don't have to experiment with a decent car only to find out the swap just won't work leaving me with a messed up car. I am not sure if the exhaust manifolds will fit with the shock towers unmodified but I will make custom headers so that will not be an issue for me.

Good luck.

 

[wicked93gs]

well, I am still sourcing parts at this point, but I know of some of these issues...

1.I will only be running and alternator and can make a custom bracket easily enough...not an issue

2.I hadnt thought of this particular issue...however I can weld up a custom pan if necessary..assuming the oil pickup tube doesnt interfere with it too much maybe I'll get lucky and not have to make a new tube

3. the thermostat housing issue I hadnt yet considered either...I'll have to think of a way to solve that

4. This one is easy...we both know the manifold can be flipped...assuming it is raised 3/8" of an inch...custom spacers will need to be made...I can make spacers if I have to...but if you have access to a machine shop...when you make your spacers, make an extra set for me and I'll buy them off of you(I supose I could also use 2 sets of phenolic spacers...though that may or may not cause a vacuum leak)...or what I have been considering doing is welding up a custom intake manifold without butterflies in a similar style to those they use on indy cars(or perhaps a twin entry intake manifold like a 3000gt since this car will eventually be twin turbo) my preference is a spaced stock manifold though...so let me know if you want to sell me an extra set

also I will make custom headers running in front of the engine to mount my turbo(s) on anyway, I know there are issues(there are always issues) and this isnt the first engine swap I have done so I'm not inexperienced in the fabrication aspects, keep in touch with me though so we can compare notes. I'm also interested to know what clutch disk and throw out bearing you plan on using to expand my options

 

[66Runt]

If you go that far why not a Hotchkis with a ZF

You could pull the V6 forward, and have IRS too. At that point you'd have a very well balanced car. And absolutely nothing would be hard to work on.

 

[wicked93gs]

the only problem with pulling it forward is that the T5 shifter would already be even further forward than it already is in a classic mustang...though mustangs plus does sell that kit to bring the shifter back toward the driver...its definately worth considering...and would solve the thermostat housing problem quite nicely...just run some piping up front to the stock radiator...like this guy did(a link you may or may not have Ronstang)

http://members.cox.net/rdgrauman/Healey.html

 

[66Runt]

ZF is a rear gearbox/transaxle

You wouldn't have a T5. You'd have the engine, bell housing and clutch. attached to that would be a Hotchkis Torque tube setup. In the rear you'd have the Getrag ZF transaxle.

I don't know anyone who has done this in a Mustang, so it would be very unique!