Idle Settings and some Logs

[m0l0]

Hi there all :SNSign: members!

Well ive been out of town the past two weeks finding the driveshaft yoke ( what a pita to find here ) and fixing the T5 that i bought like 3 weeks ago bc there was a prob with it, well now its running really fine no vibrations all quiet (as long as i dont WOT it ), well now i have to start fine tune it i havent bought E.A. i am a broke ass right now but next paycheck will go there, well the reason of this post is to comment/ask of the idle quality, i have a really nice idle ( the car will start right away cold/hot ) no hunting idle no stange stuff, how ever for me to reach this nice idle i had to make some changes that i dont know if they are right:


I can´t make the car idle as is now with the TPS lower than 1.08
I cant make the car idle without a lot of help of the throttle screw like 3 full turns with the blade closed.
I have followed the procedure of reseting idle how ever there was no success the car refuses to iidle with the screw 122 rpm lower than the 800 rpm ( idle ) and the IAC disconnected

Now the thing is that right now my idle values seem not so far off others with H/C/I

Maf Reading : 25.4~ KG/HR
Mav V : .796
Load : ~15.8 - 16.0
TPS V: 1.084~

Well i know to reach a nice idle the maf transfer has to be acurate i have reached Karmfs of 1.07 on idle and on all the rpms dosn´t exceeds more than 1.10 , so i think my maf transfer is pretty much good as now ( some little changes )

Ive also changed the throttle body flow to the formula that is on the helpfile of E.A. and i must admit that my throttle response is as good or better than stock ( 24.99 * 2.2046226 /60 = 0.918457 ) and this improved the idle quality also

I will attach a nice and long log of my idle and at the end one little rev to 3400 rpms so u can verify this to see if i am off something

do you think an idle of 800-900 rpm is high for a street car with cam ?? please comment since i cant have a steady idle with this cam lower than 800 rpms

Thanks again for everything!! and for all your support and sorry again for the looong post

Download 061110063427.zip

 

[final5-0]

Are you saying you gotta have the tb blade stop screw three full turns open to make it idle

If so, something ain't right

To me ... all that stuff you posted sounds like a v leak

Grady

 

[m0l0]

Nope , no vacuum leaks at all , i am really pissed i adjusted the lower tps setting i could get to idle and that is 1.044v, with the screw at 3 full turns , now im more pissed because my load seems to got higher now it sitting at 25-26% , it is really pissing me off i cant damm get it to idle on lower settings, it was idling perfect at 800 with a 15-16 load before i started moving the tps but now needs 900 to idle

 

[final5-0]

I'll be happy to share some of my thoughts/findings with you

You are very close to < 1.00 closed tps value so even though it would be better if you were below 1.00 ... it most likely is not hurting anything. The fact you need the tb blade stop screw three full turns out is most likely the reason for the higher tps voltage value.

About your optimum idle rpm

You are setting your idle with the pcm and not trying to use the tb balde stop screw ... Correct

You WILL NOT be able to keep a stable idle with a h/c/i combo if you try to idle it too low. You can see that by watching the K's go from being stable to seeing them start to move around when you lower the idle value too much.

Maybe this could help you relate a bit better
Use the sig link and you'll be able to hear mine at 850 rpm

I'd use the pcm to set the idle at 900 rpm to start off.
You most likely can go lower
but
get it stable at that value first

If you got a bleed screw on your tb, I'd set it at 1.5 turns open give or take .25 of a turn.

I'd close the tb blade stop screw all the way and just barely crack it open with something like .25 of a turn.

For my combo ... I obtain the most stable idle if I set it up to where it will just barely idle with the isc discoed.

I have found my combo gives way way more stable of an idle if it is a bit rich.
It is certainly more stable being too rich as opposed to being too lean. My cam has a very low lsa which I suspect has a lot to do with that however.

Are you running an aftermarket tb where you had to switch the isc?

If so maybe something there is not quite right there

You are 7 percent lean as indicated by your K's so you can certainly get closer with that.

About your load values at idle

25% idle load with a h/c/i combo is not all that much outta line.

Some will say it is too high but I run in that range without any issues.

In my particular situation ... I will not be hosing around with the load setting simply due to to the fact I had all my various tables (which as you know, are governed by load) all set before the load scaling thing became all that well know and then grew to the popular status it has these days.

Now ... in your case ............

Maybe if you have not done all that much to your tune at this time you might wanna consider using the load scaling to lower things a tiny bit

I keep reading over and over your sig and saw an afpr
you are back to the stock pressure setting ... Correct

Does the no mention of inj's, tb, or maf mean you are using the oem stuff

One last thing before I give you a chance to respond .........

It does seem like your tps activity could be a part in what started these issues

My gut feeling says .................
to look in that area before you do the stuff above

Your turn

Grady

 

[m0l0]

I keep reading over and over your sig and saw an afpr
you are back to the stock pressure setting ... Correct

Does the no mention of inj's, tb, or maf mean you are using the oem stuff

One last thing before I give you a chance to respond .........

It does seem like your tps activity could be a part in what started these issues

My gut feeling says .................
to look in that area before you do the stuff above

Your turn

Grady

Well i am really thankful that you took the time to load my log thanks again! as always nice support , dang i make a mistake on the sig by not putting the FMS 30 lbs injs. sorry for that , well yes the AFPR is actualy on steady 39psi with the vac disconnected and its doing its job really fine,

well the KARMS ad idle were tuned with the maf tansfer by rinchen the afr only on that area by 10% thats how i reached those karmfs at idle, wich as i stated before they seem nice no other number on the maf transfer was altered since i have logged all the rpm band and only the idle needed a help on the maf transfer.

I have reached again my perfect idle that night was a little on a kinda hurry. latter the car stabilized with a closed loop with a maf flow @ 24-25 kg/hr, load at steady 16-17%.

I am not going to move the idle on the next few days since is now steady , btw the car idles perfect @ 800, anything less and the car begins to hunt idle or simply die, and i am confident that the IAC is doing its job because any load added ( steering wheel movement ) will increase the opening not making the car die.

i didnt grind the TPS bolt holes since i dont have a drill , an the tps is reading 1.059 as right now with that idle.

i will not make anything more on the tuning since now i have more problems to solve.

Bad vibration @ 100mph+ ( ive replaced the tranny , pilot b/b , DS yoke)
that problem is present before i started the h/c/i/ proyect wich lead me to bought a new tranny , get the DS balanced , replace the yoke , all of that was past week , ive got the tranny up the monday for the 3rth time this month and i replaced the rear main seal ( wich seems to be leaking (NOOOO pls no ) or the stupid cork gasket on the back of the engine lower intake ( i hope this is the leak other wise i will kill myself this week))

I am really tired of adressing that vibration problem wich started badly at 86 mph , then changed the tranny , got the ds balanced and a new yoke, thi kinda solved the problem but the vibs now start exactly at 100 mph so i am tired of this and i will have this week to think of myself a little bit

Ive changed the rear main seal while adressing the vib problem and there was a little leak from the lower intake cork gasket but the leak is now bad i really hope is still the cork gasket and not the rear main seal other wise i will be really pissed and i will abandon all this for at least a week.

Well i am sorry that i unleashed all the problems :OT: but i am really frustrated that i cant enjoy my car after more than 6 months on 4 towers and with all their guts out.

So i will try to post again , but i will first get rid of that leaking , because i dont see any more hope on the vib problem i need my head to be with at least 1 less problem since i am overloaded with all the problems i have with the car

sorry again , and thanks so much for your support i will try to get this mechanical stuff fixed as soon as possible to again start to fine tune him

 

[final5-0]

Well

30's you say

It does kinda help to know a little thing like that

No prob my friend

I do enjoy talking about this stuff but ... at best ... one is at a disadvantage when trying to talk over a distance on these pooter screens.

What kind of maf are you working with

Are you a GT or Cobra Stang or more importantly

Are you working with a t4m0 or j4j1 cal file

Grady

 

[m0l0]

Well

30's you say

It does kinda help to know a little thing like that

No prob my friend

I do enjoy talking about this stuff but ... at best ... one is at a disadvantage when trying to talk over a distance on these pooter screens.

What kind of maf are you working with

Are you a GT or Cobra Stang or more importantly

Are you working with a t4m0 or j4j1 cal file

Grady

Woops again my mistake

I am working on the T4M0 , as is working flawlesly

100% stock maf even the stock airbox with the paper filter ( i know i need a CAI as soon as possible )

75 mm TB

GT all the way

I know this screens make everything more difficult to describe and type the correct word or the correct term

 

[final5-0]

Woops again my mistake

I am working on the T4M0 , as is working flawlesly

100% stock maf even the stock airbox with the paper filter ( i know i need a CAI as soon as possible )

75 mm TB

GT all the way

I know this screens make everything more difficult to describe and type the correct word or the correct term

Thats great to know as well

Might I suggest you update your sig

You said you were gonna move away from tuning for a while to work on other issues. The complete and accurate sig info will be so helpful to all when you start back up with the tuning and want to ask Q's again.

Your combo is very close to my first efforts so I might be able to help shed some light your way when you get back into all this

Just something for you to think about here

Dump the t4m0 and move away ... check that ... run away from it as fast as you can

The j4j1 can simplify your tuning efforts greatly
as I kinda eluded to above ...........

That ain't no opinion Its a fact

Hope you get all the other stuff all working just dandy

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

I too agree the j4j1 is much nicer to work with. Drivability is much better and took alot less work to get there. I tried using the same changes I made to the j4j1 to the t4m0 and it had worse drivability.

I have my idle set at 800 in the tweecer and just turned the IAC screw (not the blade screw but the bleed screw) 2.5-3 turns out from closed my hanes says 2.5 as a re-set. I am thinking of bumping my ilde to 850 and seeing if there is any diff. in idle but so far it idles great with those changes for me. I really have not spent much time on my idle though and its really stable.

 

[m0l0]

I too agree the j4j1 is much nicer to work with. Drivability is much better and took alot less work to get there. I tried using the same changes I made to the j4j1 to the t4m0 and it had worse drivability.

I have my idle set at 800 in the tweecer and just turned the IAC screw (not the blade screw but the bleed screw) 2.5-3 turns out from closed my hanes says 2.5 as a re-set. I am thinking of bumping my ilde to 850 and seeing if there is any diff. in idle but so far it idles great with those changes for me. I really have not spent much time on my idle though and its really stable.

i am kinda lost , i was wondering for what was that "other" screw head, sorry to ask but what is the purpose of the "bleed" screw???. i mean , the only use i see for that stuff is to use it to apply a seafoam treatment

 

[blksn955.o]

our 94-95's have "kinda sorta" got something like the bleeder plate they used to put on fox's back in the day.

It is an adj. for the Idle Air Control or Intake Air Control the amount you unscrew this screw alows more air into the by-pass vien for idle. We have a sep. little air intake deal "in" our t-body that goes to the IAC motor, this is another screw motor deal that moves a set distance in and out to control idle to make it smooth. It then goes back behind the t-body blade so the blade can be closed and still get air.

If you look on the opposite side of the t-body from were the blade screw and throt. cable are you will see either a plastic plug (mine was white but I have seen grey ones). Under this plug is a hex screw. Use a allen key and you can turn it out or in for more or less air. I have found a sweet spot at around 3 turns from closed.

 

[m0l0]

our 94-95's have "kinda sorta" got something like the bleeder plate they used to put on fox's back in the day.

It is an adj. for the Idle Air Control or Intake Air Control the amount you unscrew this screw alows more air into the by-pass vien for idle. We have a sep. little air intake deal "in" our t-body that goes to the IAC motor, this is another screw motor deal that moves a set distance in and out to control idle to make it smooth. It then goes back behind the t-body blade so the blade can be closed and still get air.

If you look on the opposite side of the t-body from were the blade screw and throt. cable are you will see either a plastic plug (mine was white but I have seen grey ones). Under this plug is a hex screw. Use a allen key and you can turn it out or in for more or less air. I have found a sweet spot at around 3 turns from closed.

Lol that stuff is completely closed since i beleive it will allow unmetered air to enter this bbk TB dosnt have the plastic cap and original dosnt fit, maybe this is all my idle problems , on other note i hve found the oil leak , i have concluded that is the stupid cork gasket on the lower intake on the back side , but is leaking really bad, thank god it wasnt the rear main seal

 

[blksn955.o]

it will not allow un-meterd' air to enter as its a sealed situation. Un-meterd' air is an issue that it is "un-seen" by the maf, if the airbypass or IAC idle vien is drawing air into and around the blade and not sucking any air in from outside the air intake pathway the maf will see this. Think of that adj. like a REALLY fine idle screw.

To my knowledge all aftermarket t-bodies for our cars have the allen head (hex) screw. The plastic cap is gone from mine as I lost it, it is more of a cover to keep grime and junk out of the screw. Many cars have them gone just from the age of our cars and run fine so I dont think it will "leak" any air into the system. It sets the opening of the IAC motor...think of a plunger that moves in and out and the screw sets it further front or back in its base travel...