Illegal immigration petition

69Rcode_Mach1 · Apr 17, 2006

Again the point being it is illegal is the simplest argument you can throw out there. I don't get why they should have a say in it at all. Something kinda strikes a nerve when people protest a policy of a nation they aren't even a part of. It just doesn't make sense. Yes we will take a hit if they are all taken out. If that is the case then that means it is a BIG problem, and needs to be dealt with ASAP. They have slid by far too long, it is time to lay down the law, and prevent this problem from popping back up again.

stangonline · Apr 17, 2006

69Rcode_Mach1 said:
Again the point being it is illegal is the simplest argument you can throw out there. I don't get why they should have a say in it at all. Something kinda strikes a nerve when people protest a policy of a nation they aren't even a part of. It just doesn't make sense. Yes we will take a hit if they are all taken out. If that is the case then that means it is a BIG problem, and needs to be dealt with ASAP. They have slid by far too long, it is time to lay down the law, and prevent this problem from popping back up again.

I agree that it's a problem. Read back to the very beginning of this thread. People like the simple solutions. Simply saying that it's illegal is an easy thing to do...and yes, it is illegal - but it's impossible to enforce the law the way it was originally intended - IMPOSSIBLE. If this would have started maybe 20 years ago, it might be managable. It's more than "taking a hit". Think about the things I have said and apply a little reasoning - imagine how the US could enforce these laws and what would happen if we tried. Are we just going to ask, "Please leave now if you are not here legally."? It would require force, people would get hurt, discriminated against and worse. No political party is going to get behind that, especially with the Presidency on the line!

So reverting back to, "It's illegal", no matter how true that is - is nowhere near a solution.

Jeff

WORTH · Apr 17, 2006

Let me just say this. And this is just one situation that I personally know if.

Before I retired, my auto repair shop was in a building with 2 other businesses. A used car dealership(totally legal) and another auto repair business owned by a legal brazilian who had 6 brazillians working for him, they lived in the attack over the shop (which is illegal), I don't know if they were legal or not, but I do know he would do an engine swap in a chevy van for $200 bux.

My shop labor at the time was 60 per hour, the book called for 14 hours on a shortblock swap, that works out to $840 labor. His shop rate on that job was about $14 per hour.

I could only do it for 14 per hour if I didn't pay my help more than about 5 per hour.

Those are all facts.

stangonline · Apr 17, 2006

That's right....and there are plenty of other examples, I'm sure - and it's not fair, I agree. Everyone has good and bad stories (Most people remember their bad experiences - fact). All of these stories suggest that reform needs to take place, period. It's the unreasonable and impossible ways that people suggest going about it, that I disagree with.

Regarding your situation - If you thought that was going on - I'm sure you called someone about it?

GNN60GT500 · Apr 17, 2006

All right, now I have to add my opinion into this as well-

1st of all- I am HALF MEXICAN-

Being half Mexican, here are the following things I would like to state-

1. My grandparents came over here legally and guess what the first thing they did when they got here was?

LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH-

2. I would also like to add that illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy-

One of Mexico's biggest sources of incoming money is money being sent from the US back to Mexico- money that is then being spent in Mexico, not the US-

SCHOOLS- Here in Southern CA, many classes are taught in SPANISH-

Thats right, instead of learning ENGLISH like my grandparents did, they complain that if they have to learn English it will take them an extra year of school to graduate-

But by letting them teach in Spanish, we are setting them up to fail- to be another person taking advantage of the system because they cant get a good job-

HOSPITALS- How many hospitals have closed in SO CAL because they can't afford to stay open on free health care?

My wife is a doctor, and she will tell you first hand this is the problem-

Most doctors will spend a minimal amount of time with illigal alien patients, because they get paid as much,

this mean if they have a serious problem, it can get passed up because they doctor is not taking their time-

then serious problem gets worst, and the illegal alien costs our system more then if they would have in the 1st place if the doctor would have taken the time and not been so greddy-

so you can blame whoever for this one-

CONSTRUCTION- Most construction workers in the US are making the same amount per hour they were 15 years ago, because they have competition from illegal immigrants for their jobs-

Is there an easy answer- NO

Does it need to be fixed- YES

They work, their lazy, they are a drain, they are not- all arguable points-

ONE THING I will say for sure though-

AMERICA IS NOT PROTECTING ITS BORDERS LIKE IT SHOULD-

Ill put money that Al Quaida has gotten more people in over the Mexican border-

WORTH · Apr 18, 2006

stangonline said:
That's right....and there are plenty of other examples, I'm sure - and it's not fair, I agree. Everyone has good and bad stories (Most people remember their bad experiences - fact). All of these stories suggest that reform needs to take place, period. It's the unreasonable and impossible ways that people suggest going about it, that I disagree with.

Regarding your situation - If you thought that was going on - I'm sure you called someone about it?

Well to be honest, this is in the same line with illegal drugs. For some reason we have laws that are not inforced. Our government is harsher on driving without your seatbelt on than they are about illegal aliens or drugs.

I don't think we need any new laws or regulations, we just have to inforce the ones we have.

Bottom line is LESS LAWS and MORE ENFORCEMENT.

StangDreamin' · Apr 18, 2006

WORTH said:
Well to be honest, this is in the same line with illegal drugs. For some reason we have laws that are not inforced. Our government is harsher on driving without your seatbelt on than they are about illegal aliens or drugs.

I don't think we need any new laws or regulations, we just have to inforce the ones we have.

Bottom line is LESS LAWS and MORE ENFORCEMENT.

Thank you!

We've been at cross-purposes before; once or twice with spectacular (if not happy) results. But - mark this date and time - we are 100% in agreement on this issue.

Let's enforce the laws we have, before we start introducing more!

67MustangManiac · Apr 18, 2006

I signed it. Wish I could sign it 1000 times...illegally!

Come in legally or don't come in at all.
Send money back to your family? Don't have kids you can't afford! I don't!
And finally, no, I DON'T need to learn THE LANGUAGE OF LA RAZA! As I've been told!

What other illegal acts are we considering amnesty for? Yeah, none.

Maniac!

stangonline · Apr 18, 2006

You guys are blind I tell ya! We are so far past "send them home", it's not even funny.

If you want to say anything else in this thread that is meaningfull, make realistic, humane suggestions on how to solve the problem - at the same time, thinking ahead to the potential fallout of your proposed solutions.

WORTH · Apr 19, 2006

stangonline said:
You guys are blind I tell ya! We are so far past "send them home", it's not even funny.

If you want to say anything else in this thread that is meaningfull, make realistic, humane suggestions on how to solve the problem - at the same time, thinking ahead to the potential fallout of your proposed solutions.

OK, your right, it's OK to live in this country and not pay taxes, not abide by local zoning laws, and not abide by minimum wage laws. I think I'll become a mexican citizen then jump the border and I wont have to pay taxes anymore, Now that's a plan.

stangonline · Apr 19, 2006

WORTH said:
OK, your right, it's OK to live in this country and not pay taxes, not abide by local zoning laws, and not abide by minimum wage laws. I think I'll become a mexican citizen then jump the border and I wont have to pay taxes anymore, Now that's a plan.

Go ahead, and you'll realize why they want to be here so bad.

Did you even bother to READ the message that you quoted? I didn't say that any of those things were OK. I SIMPLY (or so I thought) stated that the real issue now (that it's so far out of hand) is finding a HUMANE solution.

WORTH · Apr 19, 2006

stangonline said:
Go ahead, and you'll realize why they want to be here so bad.

Did you even bother to READ the message that you quoted? I didn't say that any of those things were OK. I SIMPLY (or so I thought) stated that the real issue now (that it's so far out of hand) is finding a HUMANE solution.

I read your post, and it doesn't change my mind, they are here illegally, they are costing ME and YOU money, I take care of MY family, why should I have to pay for illegals? It's bad enough I have to pay for every other useless slug on welfare thats here legally. Send them home, you want humane? I'll spring for the Motorcoach.

stangonline · Apr 19, 2006

WORTH said:
I read your post, and it doesn't change my mind, they are here illegally, they are costing ME and YOU money, I take care of MY family, why should I have to pay for illegals? It's bad enough I have to pay for every other useless slug on welfare thats here legally. Send them home, you want humane? I'll spring for the Motorcoach.

Great solution. You seem to be stuck on thinking that I want to change your mind..I don't. By offering "send them home" as a solution just says that you don't understand the logistics and consequences of trying to send 11 million + people somewhere that they don't want to go - regardless of where they belong.

Nevermind.

LUCAFU1 · Apr 20, 2006

if your complaining on how much you pay now just wait and see how much it will cost to send everyone away, beef up border security, and then some. to many varibles with this problem.

65ShelbyClone · Apr 20, 2006

stangonline said:
By offering "send them home" as a solution just says that you don't understand the logistics and consequences of trying to send 11 million + people somewhere that they don't want to go - regardless of where they belong.

Its kind of like bailing a boat with big leaks. Suppose hypothetically that border jumpings and deportation rates are equal. When the "leaks" are drastically reduced, there is a better chance that deportation will outpace illegal immigration. In that event the number of illegals gradually come down. Over the long term the cost will be easier to absorb(provided other BS expenditures/programs are eliminated). Not only that, I'm sure a good number would choose to go through naturalization as well.

Jkube2 · Apr 20, 2006

I live in Tucson, AZ. I am a painting contractor. I am not going to learn spanish to hire help. It is a problem here when it comes to business. We have a serious border problem. Its not only Mexicans that are being targetted ,terrorists are here because of it. Stereotypes aside , we need to secure our borders. This where all the bad guys pass through and have been. It is rediculous now for an honest man to start a bus. and make it without cheating by hiring illegals here. Seems like all the good workers are either spun out on drugs or cant speak english. Seems like the fat american kid problem is more important for our future than any this. Our local news was looking for a huge riot during the protests. Guess what ....nada. The ones that were protesting wanted the day off. The rest of us were working. If you are a proud American than you appreciate hard work I say. I think it is a huge gift to be an American. Its not easy and its not free. I wouldnt give it up for anything.

ddonaca351 · Apr 20, 2006

If you go back far enough almost all of our ancestors are aliens, BUT YA KNOW WHAT.... they came over legal. They taught their kids to speak, read and write English... because they were proud to be American. They knew their "home" sucked compared to where they were now, if their home was so great they wouldn't have left.
Now I fully agree that some of my Mexican friends (and Korean, and Vietnamese, and Black, etc...) are some of the hardest working people I know... but again, they all did it legal too.
Yeah it sucks, yeah you have to fill out the papers 4-5-10 times, yeah it takes 3-5 years, but it can be done. And if you're not willing to do it the right way, the are you really the kind of person who is soooooo hard working? I think not.
I know several hard working framers who are white, who cant find a job, because the local illegals will work for $10 an hour cash. The guys are not lazy, they would love to work, but when the insurance on your truck, your gas, rent and day-care cost more than you make....
No matter what your feelings are on the issue, I think it is pretty easy to see (unless your blind like Bush) that this bill is not the right solution.
(and yes you can blame me, I voted for him, I am sorry, honest I am)

DD

69Rcode_Mach1 · Apr 20, 2006

I agree with the majority here, yes we may take a dip, but it is a necessary dip to fix a problem that has been going on for far too long. Then we need to strengthen our borders, Jkube2 hit it right on, we will have worse problems than illegals if we don't. If there are 11 million of them here, it is definitely time to fix that. That is a ridiculous number to have, that means that almost 5% of our population is illegally here from mexico. Time for some cleanup, I am more than willing to pay the higher taxes to fix this problem. It may dip at first, but will help our economy climb once the problem is solved. May 1st none of the Latinos are working here, I say fire their asses, unfortunately we won't be doing that, so now we have to put aside more of our time to cover while they are gone to help out our boss. Nothing inhumane about putting them on busses and throwing them back to their own country. Inhumane is the SS or Gestapo taking people to death camps, not the Gestapo asking to see someones papers and then giving them a nice comfortable ride, with meals, back to where they belong, for the purpose of justice.

stangonline · Apr 20, 2006

69Rcode_Mach1 said:
I agree with the majority here, yes we may take a dip, but it is a necessary dip to fix a problem that has been going on for far too long. Then we need to strengthen our borders, Jkube2 hit it right on, we will have worse problems than illegals if we don't. If there are 11 million of them here, it is definitely time to fix that. That is a ridiculous number to have, that means that almost 5% of our population is illegally here from mexico. Time for some cleanup, I am more than willing to pay the higher taxes to fix this problem. It may dip at first, but will help our economy climb once the problem is solved. May 1st none of the Latinos are working here, I say fire their asses, unfortunately we won't be doing that, so now we have to put aside more of our time to cover while they are gone to help out our boss. Nothing inhumane about putting them on busses and throwing them back to their own country. Inhumane is the SS or Gestapo taking people to death camps, not the Gestapo asking to see someones papers and then giving them a nice comfortable ride, with meals, back to where they belong, for the purpose of justice.

11million are not all from Mexico. That all sounds great, but you have to remember that many of the people here have 0 life anywhere else...they don't want to go back. That said, they aren't going to jump on a bus just because you ask them to...and the government isn't going to have prison camps, I can assure you of that. You really think our economy will climb as a result?

It will cost a LOT more to remove them than it costs us to keep them - politicians know this. The money-saving way to do it is going to be to offer amnesty (I agree, its BS and not fair, so don't jump me, just saying what I THINK will happen) of some kind, force employers to pay more (employers tendencies to hire illegals based on cheap labor will stop) and collect taxes from these people. Of course, they should also be more strict on govt assistance, but that goes for current citizens too.

You want to complain about borders? Don't believe everything you see on CNN. They would have you believe that the big risk is terrorists walking in through Mexico. The trust is that our own government is STILL dropping the ball in numerous other areas. 2 years ago, I flew from Guadalajara, Mexico to Atlanta, GA. They did absolutely 0 security checks, other than a metal detector on the passengers of the plane before we left Mexico. Sure, our airports are "ok", but what force does our government leverage on other countries to help protect us from incoming threats? NONE. The media wants you to think that this is the biggest issue right now, but it's just the flavor of the week.

The final thing I will say about this, and I think you will all agree:

What people WISH would happen, what SHOULD happen and what WILL happen are 3 completely different things.

4MuscleMachines · Apr 20, 2006

The fed govt isn't looking for expensive solutions, there is too much looming in the horizon to do so. Take for example, IRAN and their nuke threat. Dealing with that situation is going to take big money.

Illegal immigration petition

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