Progress Thread In The Beginning, God said, Let there Be LUCIEL!

Noobz347 · Apr 7, 2020

Keionte said:
AHHHHH

See, I didn't know that about the dump valve. I was watching a bunch of videos that have shown a huge increase in horsepower/ torque when opening the valve with turbocharged engines. (Something I do see doing one day.) I still need to read up more on that.

With a power adder, you can push the engine over the cusp between needing a 2.5 inch exhaust vs. a full 3 inch. If you make the exhaust too large (oversize), you hurt performance. Exhaust scavenging sucks, driveability suffers a bit blah blah... Instead: You fit the exhaust for the majority of your travels and open the valve when you're on the highway neck in neck with all the other drivers that are obeying the speed limit

And, I don't mean that coilovers will go away. I just think the air ride will give coilovers a run for the money is all.

What I'm saying is that they wouldn't be selected for the same reasons. You can put an air-ride on whatever you like but if I set it next to a duplicate car on a road course and set it up with coil-overs, the weight advantage alone would show you the difference. The cost of such a system to even begin to compete with a coil-ver on the track? You could almost build another race car

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

90sickfox said:
If you find a way to fit 315s in the back of an IRS fox please post a link. 275s are what I want but the 265s are tight already.

What other stuff have you done to this thing. I know the engine is running cause you're getting it ( or got it ) tuned by Steve. Have you done anything inside the car ?

I will definitely document this journey! Especially the 315 fitment.

I don't know what you mean by inside...

If the engine bay, very little. I added the MSD 6AL. Bypassed the Air Charge Sensor. We couldn't locate the issue that was throwing off the Manifold Air Temp Reading.

If you mean inside the cabin... Well....

This video should clear that up...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1aIy_lFgKY&t=806s

Noobz347 · Apr 7, 2020

If you really want the ultimate in Mustang suspension, I'd vote for the Maximum Motorsports 3-link, a new set of rubber chassis bushings, and a new set of Monroe OEM style shocks. Someone around here has this

I understand the allure of the IRS swap but what a ball breaker.

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

Noobz347 said:
With a power adder, you can push the engine over the cusp between needing a 2.5 inch exhaust vs. a full 3 inch. If you make the exhaust too large (oversize), you hurt performance. Exhaust scavenging sucks, driveability suffers a bit blah blah... Instead: You fit the exhaust for the majority of your travels and open the valve when you're on the highway neck in neck with all the other drivers that are obeying the speed limit

What I'm saying is that they wouldn't be selected for the same reasons. You can put an air-ride on whatever you like but if I set it next to a duplicate car on a road course and set it up with coil-overs, the weight advantage alone would show you the difference. The cost of such a system to even begin to compete with a coil-ver on the track? You could almost build another race car

I see.

Well, I have a good amount of time to figure all that out. I'm going to have to get coilovers for now anyway. So, I'm going to get a great set and if I do decide to go with air ride in the future, I'll be able to at least have them to either fall back on OR sell.

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

Noobz347 said:
If you really want the ultimate in Mustang suspension, I'd vote for the Maximum Motorsports 3-link, a new set of rubber chassis bushings, and a new set of Monroe OEM style shocks. Someone around here has this

I understand the allure of the IRS swap but what a ball breaker.

I have BIG, HUGE Balls, sir.

Pretty tough to break 'em

Noobz347 · Apr 7, 2020

Keionte said:
I have BIG, HUGE Balls, sir.

Pretty tough to break 'em

You should look into a Magnaride refit

I wonder if anyone has ever done one to a Fox? @Mustang5L5

CarMichael Angelo · Apr 7, 2020

An irs on these cars has always been a WTF IMO.

Id really be curious to see a comparison in handling with a car running the best setup SRA ( 335’s/ 3link/Panhard bar/torque arm) versus a 275/285 tire width limited IRS.

ALL of the IMSA fox mustangs that ever were have an SRA.
ALL of the Drag radial class mustangs have an SRA.

This is another mod that serves no purpose other than being able to say you have it. Much in the same way going full out on an SRA when the grand plan is to have a daily drive-able street car. One one hand, maxing out a solid rear axle as described above will be a sonofabitch to live with on a bad stretch of road, on the other hand, going through the expense to properly build and install an irs just to drive it around in town has me scratching my head........Why?

Follow me here now.......because this is where “ the rubber meets the road” ( You like that segue?)

The guys that just have to say they have a 750-1000 hp combo that can’t, or never use it are the same guys. ( like 500 rwhp isn’t already pointless on a non traction controlled street tired car). It’d all be different though if it is a requirement for the intended usage of the car..( competitive drag car/flying mile)

That car lives it life in the garage, waiting on the weekend. Maybe one day it gets driven to work, or a local cruise night, but the majority of the time it’s spends its methanol/C16 swilling ass sitting waiting on a Friday or Saturday night. So,....the build purpose, and it’s intended usage jive...it’s a pain in the dick to drive on the street, but fast as sht when any of that matters. I’ve been there, and will never again have 40k worth of old assed car sitting, waiting on Saturday, when I can take it to a track to see if I can’t go and fck something up.
So.........95% race car, 5%street car.

There is so much more potential using an SRA when performance, and looks matter. Big, stupid width tires can fit inside the stock sheetmetal, and the skill required to minitub, or even do a full tub to make them fit only requires a fraction of the skill hacking the quarters require. That is so far beyond skill set for even an accomplished body man, and when you finally find the guy that can do it......Say goodbye to your wallet...cause dudes gonna take all of it.

The Monster has 315’s, if I wanted a 335/355, all that would’ve required was an extra inch added inboard to the strip of steel I welded between the gap I created in the stock wheel tub. My car is a street car. It was built to be. If I take it to the drag strip ( my 1% usage) I could throw on a set of drag radials, and the suspension will work. It won’t be ideal, but it won’t wheel hop, and it certainly won’t spit a half shaft. Everything under the car was built for it, but with compromise. I don’t give a sht if it’s a couple of tenths slower than it coulda been by living with a stiffer rear spring, removing the sway bars, and setting the shocks struts to drag mode.

this car has always been the sht, in my opinion. Pure show car that gets driven to show events. Has something like a 345/20 under the rear quarter. The car was built to ride in the weeds, actually cut the axle tubes and welded them back with camber built in just so he could put it as low as it is w/o having the tires tilt inward when he drops it.

The moral to the story is build the car for the 90% of how it will be used, not for 10% of the time it’ll spend somewhere else.

bird_dog0347 · Apr 7, 2020

Keionte said:
That's funny you say that. I just called them, but theyre closed atm.

It's only 8:30am PDT right now, they likely were still in bed.

bird_dog0347 · Apr 7, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
An irs on these cars has always been a WTF IMO.

Id really be curious to see a comparison in handling with a car running the best setup SRA ( 335’s/ 3link/Panhard bar/torque arm) versus a 275/285 tire width limited IRS.

ALL of the IMSA fox mustangs that ever were have an SRA.
ALL of the Drag radial class mustangs have an SRA.

This is another mod that serves no purpose other than being able to say you have it. Much in the same way going full out on an SRA when the grand plan is to have a daily drive-able street car. One one hand, maxing out a solid rear axle as described above will be a sonofabitch to live with on a bad stretch of road, on the other hand, going through the expense to properly build and install an irs just to drive it around in town has me scratching my head........Why?

Follow me here now.......because this is where “ the rubber meets the road” ( You like that segue?)

The guys that just have to say they have a 750-1000 hp combo that can’t, or never use it are the same guys. ( like 500 rwhp isn’t already pointless on a non traction controlled street tired car). It’d all be different though if it is a requirement for the intended usage of the car..( competitive drag car/flying mile)

That car lives it life in the garage, waiting on the weekend. Maybe one day it gets driven to work, or a local cruise night, but the majority of the time it’s spends its methanol/C16 swilling ass sitting waiting on a Friday or Saturday night. So,....the build purpose, and it’s intended usage jive...it’s a pain in the dick to drive on the street, but fast as sht when any of that matters. I’ve been there, and will never again have 40k worth of old assed car sitting, waiting on Saturday, when I can take it to a track to see if I can’t go and fck something up.
So.........95% race car, 5%street car.

There is so much more potential using an SRA when performance, and looks matter. Big, stupid width tires can fit inside the stock sheetmetal, and the skill required to minitub, or even do a full tub to make them fit only requires a fraction of the skill hacking the quarters require. That is so far beyond skill set for even an accomplished body man, and when you finally find the guy that can do it......Say goodbye to your wallet...cause dudes gonna take all of it.

The Monster has 315’s, if I wanted a 335/355, all that would’ve required was an extra inch added inboard to the strip of steel I welded between the gap I created in the stock wheel tub. My car is a street car. It was built to be. If I take it to the drag strip ( my 1% usage) I could throw on a set of drag radials, and the suspension will work. It won’t be ideal, but it won’t wheel hop, and it certainly won’t spit a half shaft. Everything under the car was built for it, but with compromise. I don’t give a sht if it’s a couple of tenths slower than it coulda been by living with a stiffer rear spring, removing the sway bars, and setting the shocks struts to drag mode.

this car has always been the sht, in my opinion. Pure show car that gets driven to show events. Has something like a 345/20 under the rear quarter. The car was built to ride in the weeds, actually cut the axle tubes and welded them back with camber built in just so he could put it as low as it is w/o having the tires tilt inward when he drops it.

The normal to the story is build the car for the 90% of how it will be used, not for 10% of the time it’ll spend somewhere else.

My car is a street car and I can tell you the IRS makes it ride MUCH better than the SRA did. I did not however have the SRA setup with the PHB/TA but I can say that it solved all the problems I was trying to solve, for less money than the properly setup SRA would have AND I didn't have issues with tailpipe routing which was a must for the way I wanted my car to look and sound.

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

CarMichael Angelo said:
An irs on these cars has always been a WTF IMO.

Id really be curious to see a comparison in handling with a car running the best setup SRA ( 335’s/ 3link/Panhard bar/torque arm) versus a 275/285 tire width limited IRS.

ALL of the IMSA fox mustangs that ever were have an SRA.
ALL of the Drag radial class mustangs have an SRA.

This is another mod that serves no purpose other than being able to say you have it. Much in the same way going full out on an SRA when the grand plan is to have a daily drive-able street car. One one hand, maxing out a solid rear axle as described above will be a sonofabitch to live with on a bad stretch of road, on the other hand, going through the expense to properly build and install an irs just to drive it around in town has me scratching my head........Why?

Follow me here now.......because this is where “ the rubber meets the road” ( You like that segue?)

The guys that just have to say they have a 750-1000 hp combo that can’t, or never use it are the same guys. ( like 500 rwhp isn’t already pointless on a non traction controlled street tired car). It’d all be different though if it is a requirement for the intended usage of the car..( competitive drag car/flying mile)

That car lives it life in the garage, waiting on the weekend. Maybe one day it gets driven to work, or a local cruise night, but the majority of the time it’s spends its methanol/C16 swilling ass sitting waiting on a Friday or Saturday night. So,....the build purpose, and it’s intended usage jive...it’s a pain in the dick to drive on the street, but fast as sht when any of that matters. I’ve been there, and will never again have 40k worth of old assed car sitting, waiting on Saturday, when I can take it to a track to see if I can’t go and fck something up.
So.........95% race car, 5%street car.

There is so much more potential using an SRA when performance, and looks matter. Big, stupid width tires can fit inside the stock sheetmetal, and the skill required to minitub, or even do a full tub to make them fit only requires a fraction of the skill hacking the quarters require. That is so far beyond skill set for even an accomplished body man, and when you finally find the guy that can do it......Say goodbye to your wallet...cause dudes gonna take all of it.

The Monster has 315’s, if I wanted a 335/355, all that would’ve required was an extra inch added inboard to the strip of steel I welded between the gap I created in the stock wheel tub. My car is a street car. It was built to be. If I take it to the drag strip ( my 1% usage) I could throw on a set of drag radials, and the suspension will work. It won’t be ideal, but it won’t wheel hop, and it certainly won’t spit a half shaft. Everything under the car was built for it, but with compromise. I don’t give a sht if it’s a couple of tenths slower than it coulda been by living with a stiffer rear spring, removing the sway bars, and setting the shocks struts to drag mode.

this car has always been the sht, in my opinion. Pure show car that gets driven to show events. Has something like a 345/20 under the rear quarter. The car was built to ride in the weeds, actually cut the axle tubes and welded them back with camber built in just so he could put it as low as it is w/o having the tires tilt inward when he drops it.

The moral to the story is build the car for the 90% of how it will be used, not for 10% of the time it’ll spend somewhere else.

That car is bad as

LILCBRA · Apr 7, 2020

@Keionte If you use the site's search feature and look up the username Alcino, you'll find that he was able to take a Mustang II to 1G using the SRA. Granted, that's a bit of an apple to oranges comparison to a Fox car, but it can be done. In his case he continued to use a leaf spring set up but went with fiberglass springs iirc. I honestly don't remember much about his complete setup anymore except the fact he used fiberglass leaf springs, but if he could make a II handle with little to no aftermarket support for auto cross - and perform as well as he does - you should be able to do the same with a Fox which HAS the aftermarket support. So what Mike is saying makes sense. Alcino is a member of the pro touring forums, here is a link to one of his old posts. I don't know if any of the links that are supplied are still active or not.

Video from PHR testing of "Low Buck Bully"

My friend Rasheed that came with me to the photoshoot took these videos during the testing. They are low quality and far away, but do show my car breaking the PHR slalom record, pulling .99g on the skid pad and braking in 146ft. Slalom in 5.95sec or 48.128mph .99g_skidpad(that's me in...

www.pro-touring.com

And a pic of his car for reference. It was in an issue of PHR in April 2006 if anyone recognizes it.

90sickfox · Apr 7, 2020

No matter what you do to a SRA when you hit a bump on one side the other side will move.

I used to street race a lot ( back in mexico ). We had routes that we would run, on and off the highway. Some ran straight 1/4 miles but my group didn't. I got so sick if my car jumping across the road separations on the off ramps. Catching a hard bump on one wheel taking a curve above 60 and still on the gas is a puckering moment ( and I don't mean the cheeks on your face ). When I first installed the IRS in one of my other cars none of this bushing stuff was out yet. My 04 IRS still doesn't have all that stuff. The way I dealt with wheel hop was by adjusting the toe out just a tad on each side more than stock cobra spec. Also, put spring spacers, rubber ones that ride inside the spring. At the time I ran 255 Nitto 450 tires in the rear. Never had wheel hop and still don't. I put me rear in the car in about 07...or 08. Only one other guy was doing it back then in the forums...and he never completed the build. Over the years I found that some cars needed the driveshaft shortened. This would allow more movement between the rear and the tail of the trans to cut down on some shaking during acceleration that people thought was wheel hop. I have seen wheel hop...and helped solve wheel hop in a friends 9 second 04 cobra.

The IRS drive completely different than any SRA. There's no way I'd drag race an IRS....the autocross will tell you that on a bumpy or wet track the IRS will out perform. On a smooth dry track the SRA is more predictable and consistant....add bumps and the IRS rises to the top. My car is a street car...Ford knew what they were doing and the stock bushings have held up great and do everything I expect them to. On the street an SRA has nothing coming...unless the driver out skills me....or he can out power me on a straight.

@CarMicheal Angelo.

Carolinachill · Apr 7, 2020

I have a 1993 mustang coupe, with IRS from 2003 cobra and 315 tires on 18x 11 wheels. I did have to cut the fenders and put on plastic flares. I built this car to have fun at the autocross in the CAM class. The white fiberglass hood is now sprayed hot rod black.

Carolinachill · Apr 7, 2020

Pic with black hood. Also have MM forward offset control arms and K member. Had to cut a lot in the front fender to get tires in and not rubbing.

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

My fiberglass hood.

Rattle can Base Black Metallic
2k Clear
And a ton of wet sanding.

Realmongo · Apr 7, 2020

As in BB King's Lucille?

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

Realmongo said:
As in BB King's Lucille?

No... That'll be too Easy...

And, I like the Spelling "Luciel" better.

kiddiccarus · Apr 7, 2020

"Little Pig...... Little Pig...... Let..... Me...... In!"

LILCBRA · Apr 7, 2020

I haven't heard that song in FOREVER!!! lol

Keionte · Apr 7, 2020

Sooooo

My subframe connectors just arrived... but no seal... no bushing...sigh.

Lmr chose to send them separately eventhough I purchased them together.

Progress Thread In The Beginning, God said, Let there Be LUCIEL!

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