Installing a pi Intake
- Thread starter justinschmidt1
- Start date
98vortech
New Member
you have the intake only???thats wat i am assuming so...you will need the adapter plates and the new water tube that runs under the manifold..
I have all the parts..including the new water tube..you dont need the adapter plates..you can just use a dab of rtv silicone..thats what everyone does over at sn95forums
98vortech
New Member
LaserRed01GT
Banned
Without the adptor plates you are going to get severe turbulence in the intake runner of the cylinder head. It will definitely hurt you power potential. RTV doesn't belong anywhere near an intake runner.
I would agree to get the adaptor plates and do it right the first time.
Dusstbuster
I love meat more than anything! I just have a spec
Plenty of people are doing fine without adapter plates. Sure you might lose a little power, but you're still gaining power and airflow over stock. Plus adapters raise it up too much from what it looks like. You get a modified fuel injection pattern as well as probably having EGR issues.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
Modified fuel injection pattern??? The only thing that will change your fuel injector pattern is to change the fuel injector itself period. Moving the bottom of the intake manifold runner up a little doesn't hurt anything, in fact it helps to promote fuel atomization and produces a little more torque by effectively increasing the volume of the cylinder head intake runner.
How would an adaptor plate create EGR issues?
How would an adaptor plate create EGR issues?
96BlueStangGT
Member
If you want to spend a lot of money for the plates, then it is a good way to do it, but I didn't do it. I used the RTV and there is not one thing wrong with doing it that way. If i knew it wouldn't work, then i wouldn't have did it that way.
RTV is a good way to do it.
RTV is a good way to do it.
There is so much BS in this thread, it is not even funny.
First, just so you know my background on this swap. A friend of mine was the first person ever to do this swap. His intake was modified to fit the NPI ports. I did this swap not long after he did without any adapters or extra material. I have done this swap on a few cars. Plates or adding material to the intake is not needed.
Adapter plates have shown NO DIFFERENCE in power, none, so that crap about the turbulence of the mis-match is BS.
Leaks, if you use PI intake gaskets and and little RTV on the coolant ports that require it, you won't have any leaks. ****, some manufactures have used RTV to make the stock gaskets in the past. On my intake, it had 60,000 kms on it, it never leaked and it made a trip from Regina Saskatchewan Canada to Orange Texas... The plates are a waste of money.
The adapter plates depending on the size of them and whether they are modified to place the injectors in the stock location do affect the fuel spray pattern of the fuel injectors. The fuel injector sits higher than it did under the stock application. Using the thicker plates requires a dyno tune or a tune where the A/F is monitored because the car is leaned out with the plates. I have seen this. A car I know was tested with both plates and not plates. The car had to be retuned with the plates due to the fuel injectors being moved.
The plates are a waste of time and money. I have done the swap. It is threads like this that where there is a tonne of misinformation given that gives Stangnet a bad name.
First, just so you know my background on this swap. A friend of mine was the first person ever to do this swap. His intake was modified to fit the NPI ports. I did this swap not long after he did without any adapters or extra material. I have done this swap on a few cars. Plates or adding material to the intake is not needed.
Adapter plates have shown NO DIFFERENCE in power, none, so that crap about the turbulence of the mis-match is BS.
Leaks, if you use PI intake gaskets and and little RTV on the coolant ports that require it, you won't have any leaks. ****, some manufactures have used RTV to make the stock gaskets in the past. On my intake, it had 60,000 kms on it, it never leaked and it made a trip from Regina Saskatchewan Canada to Orange Texas... The plates are a waste of money.
The adapter plates depending on the size of them and whether they are modified to place the injectors in the stock location do affect the fuel spray pattern of the fuel injectors. The fuel injector sits higher than it did under the stock application. Using the thicker plates requires a dyno tune or a tune where the A/F is monitored because the car is leaned out with the plates. I have seen this. A car I know was tested with both plates and not plates. The car had to be retuned with the plates due to the fuel injectors being moved.
The plates are a waste of time and money. I have done the swap. It is threads like this that where there is a tonne of misinformation given that gives Stangnet a bad name.
96BlueStangGT
Member
Dusstbuster
I love meat more than anything! I just have a spec
Maybe my car is different, but when we did the swap the EGR seemed like it fit pretty snugly into the plenum already. Raising it up even .5" more would make it quite a PITA to install IMO.
Dusstbuster
I love meat more than anything! I just have a spec
Just DIY. If you wanted to, you could have the entire swap done in 3 hours or so if this is your first time doing it. It took us around 45 minutes to unhook the manifold the first time we did it, then alls you do is clean up the head, swap gaskets, rtv, replace w/ new manifold, reconnect everything, and don't start it up for 24 hours or so while the RTV cures. It's a pretty straightforward swap, just make sure you keep all your parts in check and labeled. I'm sure you probably have read up on it already but if you want more reading I have a how-to in my sig.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
We had this debate in our shop a long time ago when we heard that guys were trying to use RTV the somehow adapt these PI intakes to a non-PI head. We thought it was a joke at first, but sure enough they were serious. Then due to popular demand from customers and friends, we were asked to use our flow bench to do some testing, I happily obliged.
The below flow data was obtained from a Superflow SF-600 testing a bone stock non-PI head, the same non-PI head with RTV between the PI intake and non-PI head, and the same non-PI head with the correct adaptor plates. I let someone else apply the RTV that had done it before, I have a professional reputation to uphold.
Stock non-PI head:
View attachment 403395
Stock non-PI head with the RTV:
View attachment 403397
Stock non-PI head with correct adaptors:
View attachment 403399
As you can see the graph displaying the non-PI head without the adaptor plates is indicative of what is referred to as boundary layer shear and some mid-lift tumble. That is why you see the mid-lift surges and poor overall flow compared to the adaptor plates. The mismatch between the non-PI head and the PI intake are responsible for this. Boundary layer shear and tumble not only hurt flow and velocity characteristics, but they also inhibit the the proper pressure wave sequence that aids in scavenging during overlap, which is critical especially on stock non-PI heads and cams and will hurt power. This power is hurt especially in the low to mid RPM's where most of your street driving occurs.
Then we spent an entire weekend on our neighbor's engine dyno (SF-901). The adaptor plates showed a 13 HP peak increase over the RTV'ed intake. Now that may not sound like much of a loss, but the area under the curve it's what's really important, especially on a street car. There was as much as a 21 HP increase under the curve between 2k RPM’s and 4500 RPM’s. Some shops we have spoken with have see a bigger difference under the curve than we found. That is very significant especially on a street driven car.
There are 3 main types of fuel injector spray patterns, conical, fan, and pulse stream. We have a fan type pattern. The absolute ONLY thing that will affect the type of fuel injector pattern is to change the type of injector. Raising the bottom of the intake manifold runner ½” off the entrance to the cylinder head intake runner has absolutely no effect on the fuel injector pattern. The air being drawn into the cylinder is moving at 550-600 MPH and sometimes approaching sonic speed. The instant the fuel leaves the injector, it is immediately pulled into the extremely fast moving air charge and immediately conforms to the geometry of the airstream. The extra ½” that the adaptors provide not only help to increase fuel atomization by keeping the fuel suspended for a split second longer, but they effectively increase the volume of the intake runner and therefore increase power by allowing more air/fuel to be drawn in during overlap.
Adaptor plates may not be cheap, but there is no question that they make more power and improve fuel economy.
LaserRed01GT
Banned
LOL, that could start a whole other thread on if more CFM is better or not. But, generally speaking yes.
The first graph represents the flow data from the non_PI head flowed by itself with no intake. The next 2 are with the PI intake bolted to the head and then flowed. Whenever you flow a head with the intake bolted to it, the flow numbers will be roughly 20-30% less than the head flowed by itself. If you were to compare flow numbers from a non-PI head with the non-PI intake bolted on, to a non-PI head with the PI intake bolted on, the numbers would obviously be better on the non-PI/PI intake combo.
Trust me, do yourself a favor and get yourself the adaptor plates. I promise you, you will thank yourself.
Dusstbuster
I love meat more than anything! I just have a spec
Laser, are the adapter plates just something that go like
Manifold
PI gaskets
Adapter Plate
NPI gaskets
NPI head
or what? And when you say adapter plates are you talking livernois (sp) or some other brand? How tall are they??
Manifold
PI gaskets
Adapter Plate
NPI gaskets
NPI head
or what? And when you say adapter plates are you talking livernois (sp) or some other brand? How tall are they??
1992 2.3LX
New Member
the adapter plates cost $90. I don't find that to be very expensive for CNC machined aluinium parts.
If one uses the adapter plates does one need a new hood or will it fit under the stock hood?
If one uses the adapter plates does one need a new hood or will it fit under the stock hood?
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