I had it at 15 and it ran fine, so I decided to bump it to 18 just for the heck of it. It seems to run great, no pinging, and I use 93 octane. I guess what I'm wondering is if it is okay to run it this high if the car is showing no negative affects. It's hard to tell if there is a lot of difference, but should it theoretically run stronger with the timing advanced this much as long as there is no pinging or other side affects or will I get the same benefits at 16? I know going from say 10 to 12 or 14 makes a difference, so wasn't sure if going up 2 or 3 more would help or hurt. By the way, I have stock heads, intake, cam. My only mods are o/r x-pipe and flowmasters, 76mm maf, 3.73, K&N, and 190lph fuel pump.
Is 18 degrees advanced too much timing?
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Advancing your initial timing will only allow your vehicle to reach the total (EEC-induced) timing at a lower RPM. From the few timing advance tables I have seen, there appears to be no more timing advance-induced power gains beyond 18*...at least with a stock computer calibration. At WOT, an A9L computer will limit the total timing to around 34* at high RPM, so at least in terms of peak HP/torque, it may not improve things. However, because the overall timing curve is shifted, it may make it run stronger on the way up, that is, at lower RPMs.
If your car likes the 18* initial timing...great. Just be careful during part throttle/cruise where your total timing may be in the low 40's, even with 10* initial, and the A/F ratio is normally running a little lean...around 15:1 or more. In this case, it will shift your timing curve close to 50*, under low load conditions. Under these conditions, the combustion chambers may heat up more than usual and there may be an increased risk of preignition.
If your car likes the 18* initial timing...great. Just be careful during part throttle/cruise where your total timing may be in the low 40's, even with 10* initial, and the A/F ratio is normally running a little lean...around 15:1 or more. In this case, it will shift your timing curve close to 50*, under low load conditions. Under these conditions, the combustion chambers may heat up more than usual and there may be an increased risk of preignition.
Generally speaking, that high is not acceptable and nor would it usually do anything for you. You are just adding a possible problem by doing so. You are bringing the engine closer to the edge of damage. Why not back the timing some and run cheaper gas since these engines were not designed to run premium. Running that much timing will cause the engine to run out of steam quicker too in the rpm range. I would say for a performance setting and to avoid damage from changing weather conditions, driving conditions and gas quality, keep it around 14-15.
I just adjusted it to 18 yesterday, so I haven't driven enough to get really warm to see if it pings or runs different. I guess I will change it back to about 15 or 16, I just thought it might give it just a little more oomph, you konw how it is......always trying for those extra few ponies (especially free ones 
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The computer advances timing at a certian curve, by advancing the initial timing you move the timing up some.
Ray III
New Member
93 octane??? Doesn't sound like free horsepower to me.
If you want to run 18 base that's fine but try it on 87. If it pings see if backing it off a couple degrees helps, if not, then use 89.
Be sure to drive the car in various conditions, especially under load on a hot day, before taking your timing setting as good.
To answer your question "is this the best setting for me" you just have to figure it out for yourself. For every engine there is a certain base timing that makes the most power, any more advance than that starts to make less power. If you can't see a difference between 16 and 18... just stick with 16.
If you want to run 18 base that's fine but try it on 87. If it pings see if backing it off a couple degrees helps, if not, then use 89.
Be sure to drive the car in various conditions, especially under load on a hot day, before taking your timing setting as good.
To answer your question "is this the best setting for me" you just have to figure it out for yourself. For every engine there is a certain base timing that makes the most power, any more advance than that starts to make less power. If you can't see a difference between 16 and 18... just stick with 16.
From "How to Understand, Modify, and Service Ford FI & EEC by C. Probst....p.183
"Many tuners of fuel-injected cars usually advocate revised ignition timing specifications to further unlock the performance potential of revised fuel control. With 92-octane premium fuel, try advancing the base timing to 12 to 14 degrees BTDC. Do not try higher-octane racing fuels to advance timing further. These fuels burn too slowly and may actually reduce power and increase carbon build-up."..."It's to your advantage to use the lowest octane fuel that does not provoke pinging in your engine."
Contrary to my previous post...you may be better off following Probst's advice rather than mine.
Sometimes the better question to ask is not whether you can, but whether you should.
"Many tuners of fuel-injected cars usually advocate revised ignition timing specifications to further unlock the performance potential of revised fuel control. With 92-octane premium fuel, try advancing the base timing to 12 to 14 degrees BTDC. Do not try higher-octane racing fuels to advance timing further. These fuels burn too slowly and may actually reduce power and increase carbon build-up."..."It's to your advantage to use the lowest octane fuel that does not provoke pinging in your engine."
Contrary to my previous post...you may be better off following Probst's advice rather than mine.
Sometimes the better question to ask is not whether you can, but whether you should.
rock4451
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
I've been kind of wondering what kind of happy medium I should be aiming for on mine, too. I'm running 91 octane all the time (can't find anyone around here that pumps 92 or 93 octane), and I've only got my timing at 12*. I guess I could try fiddling n' farting around with running 89 octane and seeing if I can push 14* - if so, hey, that's money saved and more (or the same) power for free. Only problem is, it's hard to tell for sure whether my occasional pinging issues are due to octane/timing settings or my timing chain stretching at high-RPM's (see other post about pinging/smoke)...
Guess it's all kind of a tinker-and-test game for everyone, since these cars aren't so exact in design and function that one specific setup works for everyone...?
Guess it's all kind of a tinker-and-test game for everyone, since these cars aren't so exact in design and function that one specific setup works for everyone...?
93gtmustang
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sunil6784
Member
What octane do you use?rock4451 said:
As Hissin says, your initial timing is too high if you have to start using a higher octane... Depending on heat, conditions, etc. Generally right around 12 degrees initial and you can use 87 octane.
I had mine up to 15 once and the car fell flat on its face at around 4 grand. For me, my happy medium is right at 12 deg, with the cheap gas.
ninety15.0
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you guys arre crazy...i run 18* and 91 with no problems what so ever on my setup! let it rip man
i read some where that the computer advances the timing a total of 16 degress wide open plus your base timing so if you had you base at 15+16= 31 thats alittle low to me when i had my car carburated i ran total timing at 38 any more or less i could tell a difference! so does fuel injection change what total timing the engine likes ? i thought the heads and cam determined that...... i don't see why 18 base would hurt on some setups ! every car is different though..... just listen for pinging or hard starts.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
I run 18 as well but on 89 octane. I run this because it made the most power here, not because it's cool. Never seen an ill effect and the car runs alright!
Random thoughts:
If guys have alum heads or have been inside the motor, all generalities are off. They can often get away with a good bit more timing.
To kind of answer something asked, spinning the dizzy should only affect global spark. There are spark modifications for given conditions/sensory input, but on an A9 processor, the computer doesn't see that you changed global spark and accomodate it.
And FWIW, timing is seriously-pulled when starting the car - it's not a valid concern. Now on carbed stuff, I'm down with worrying about it - just not with EFI.
The quality/consistancy of gas is a worry with me these days. I won't run at the ragged edge of detonation if I can help it. Add to that, dyno pulls have shown a drop-off in peak power before pinging becomes audible to humans. Yet another reason not to push it. That's not directed at anyone on this thread (I think it's great that y'all can run so much timing) but rather a justification for other folks to not feel bad about trying to get every 1/2* advance that they can.
Random thoughts.
If guys have alum heads or have been inside the motor, all generalities are off. They can often get away with a good bit more timing.
To kind of answer something asked, spinning the dizzy should only affect global spark. There are spark modifications for given conditions/sensory input, but on an A9 processor, the computer doesn't see that you changed global spark and accomodate it.
And FWIW, timing is seriously-pulled when starting the car - it's not a valid concern. Now on carbed stuff, I'm down with worrying about it - just not with EFI.
The quality/consistancy of gas is a worry with me these days. I won't run at the ragged edge of detonation if I can help it. Add to that, dyno pulls have shown a drop-off in peak power before pinging becomes audible to humans. Yet another reason not to push it. That's not directed at anyone on this thread (I think it's great that y'all can run so much timing) but rather a justification for other folks to not feel bad about trying to get every 1/2* advance that they can.
Random thoughts.
Flavadave4
Active Member
craigwhite89gt
New Member
Everyones setup will act diffrently. I put my 306 in had it on 15.. ran OK... bumped it up to 18 and i love it.. always ran 93 octane...9K on motor NO PROBLEMS
93gtmustang
5 Year Member
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I'm getting a new crate motor, Ford racing Gt-40.
C&L told me to run 24# injectors at 38psi fuel pressure and timing set to 18 advanced. Ford racing told me to run 15 advanced. There deffinately are some gains in advancing. I saw my et's drop about .5 seconds after going from 10 to 14. And I run 93 octane just to be safe.
I think, from all I've read, that on a basically stock motor, 10 is stock setting, advance to 12 to 14 without detonation, 15 max., maybe 16, every car is different. I wouldn't go past 15. Every post and article that I've read says that after a certain point of advancing your timing that your horsepower goes back down and it only causes more wear. Just my 2 cents.
C&L told me to run 24# injectors at 38psi fuel pressure and timing set to 18 advanced. Ford racing told me to run 15 advanced. There deffinately are some gains in advancing. I saw my et's drop about .5 seconds after going from 10 to 14. And I run 93 octane just to be safe.
I think, from all I've read, that on a basically stock motor, 10 is stock setting, advance to 12 to 14 without detonation, 15 max., maybe 16, every car is different. I wouldn't go past 15. Every post and article that I've read says that after a certain point of advancing your timing that your horsepower goes back down and it only causes more wear. Just my 2 cents.
25thmustang
Mustang Master
Without strapping it to a dyno or taking it to a track why bump timing up that much. 14 sounds good for a street car that doesnt need to be tuned to run the hardest it has to. The true test of whether its good or not is the track (or the dyno).
