Is it Really a 351C?

[Snake03]

I'm going to look at a 69 fastback this evening that the owner claims has a 351C in it. Not sure if it's a 2bbl or 4bbl. It is an automatic.

My understanding is that the 351C wasn't introduced until 1970, so if it's really a C then it was swapped in at some point.

Question: How can I dfferentiate the 351C from a 351W? Any casting numbers that can be seen with the engine in the car?

Thanks.

 

[taylor4g63]

Count the valve cover bolts. Can't remember the different numbers, but i know Clevs and windsors had a different number of em.

 

[D.Hearne]

Cleveland has 8 bolts, the windsor has 6 like the 289-302's. Clevelands also have a "dry" intake manifold, the coolant exits the heads, back into the block, and exits the block, in front of the intake. Two bbl and 4 bbl heads are easy to tell apart, they will either have a "2" or "4' in the corner of the head next to the valve cover

 

[pabear89]

Dh is correct, if the upper rad hose is mounted to the intake then it's a w motor not c.
The C motor has a vertcial hose coming from a wide plate between the block and water pump.


PB

 

[Snake03]

Dh is correct, if the upper rad hose is mounted to the intake then it's a w motor not c.
The C motor has a vertcial hose coming from a wide plate between the block and water pump.PB

I had to leave before seeing the posts about the valve cover bolt patterns, and didn't count them. The upper hose does come out of the manifold, though, for sure.

The guy insists that it's the original engine and that it's a Cleveland. The VIN is M code engine, though, which is the 351W 4bbl. The carb on the engine is 2bbl. The car actually is in pretty reasonable shape, but he's got it way over priced, especially given that it doesn't have the engine in it that is should.

If I get serious about it I'll get it up on a lift and check the numbers on the block.

(Edit) And last but not least all the literature I've found says the Cleveland was only used on MY's 70-74.

 

[68GEETEE]

another way to see the difference is the spark plug size. the 351w had the larger 18mm plugs, the cleveland used the small 14mm plugs.

 

[Route666]

It sounds like you have some good bargaining tools at your disposal.

a) It ISN'T the original motor. (if they used them 1970+)

b) It ISN'T a cleveland. (As you discovered from the radiator connection)

 

[RogerC62]

Clevelands came out in 70. If the radiator hose exits the intake it's a windsor, if it exits the block it's a cleveland. Sounds like it's a 2V 351W which came in the 69s. The confusion starts in 70 where Ford used the same engine code for both versions of the 351 motors.

 

[D.Hearne]

Some people are just confused on what 302 they have. I wish I had a dollar for everybody around my neck of the woods that thought they had a "boss" 302.

 

[RogerC62]

Some people are just confused on what 302 they have. I wish I had a dollar for everybody around my neck of the woods that thought they had a "boss" 302.

Man, I run into that all the time with both 302s and 351s. Everyone says their 302 is a boss and everyone's 351 is a cleveland.

 

[Route666]

When I was a kid we used to actually have a cleveland 351 with a 4bbl carby. It was in a 1977 marquis. That was an awesome car.

 

[Jammer]

When I was a kid we used to actually have a cleveland 351 with a 4bbl carby. It was in a 1977 marquis. That was an awesome car.

Route666, you sure it wasnt a 351M? They were made in 77, at the cleveland plant, although they were not what is refered to as clevelands.

Clevelands stopped being made in 73 or 74.

 

[SL 1993 R]

there was suppose to of have been some 351c's installed in late 69 model series cars, haven't seen any in person though..

 

[Route666]

Route666, you sure it wasnt a 351M? They were made in 77, at the cleveland plant, although they were not what is refered to as clevelands.

Clevelands stopped being made in 73 or 74.

I'm not positive, but the only name my mum and I remember was cleveland. It was so healthy anyway, mum never drove it (I mean she drove it, but didn't use the power) and it waws so strong, just punted that tank around like nothing. Drank a bit of fuel though.

 

[D.Hearne]

Sounds like route666 may be from down under so he very well could have had a cleveland in a 77 car.

 

[65fsbkhipo]

Other than the manifold identification...the most obvious are the two fuel pump mounting bolts. If they are verticle...its a cleveland. If they are horizontal...its a windsor. Plain and simple.

 

[Route666]

Sounds like route666 may be from down under so he very well could have had a cleveland in a 77 car.

You got that right, I'm from upside-down land

 

[D.Hearne]

You got that right, I'm from upside-down land

Ah yes, the land where the Cleveland lived on , far after it was killed here!!

 

[bob moore]

I'm going to look at a 69 fastback this evening that the owner claims has a 351C in it. Not sure if it's a 2bbl or 4bbl. It is an automatic.

My understanding is that the 351C wasn't introduced until 1970, so if it's really a C then it was swapped in at some point.

Question: How can I dfferentiate the 351C from a 351W? Any casting numbers that can be seen with the engine in the car?

Thanks.

Take a good look at the front engine cover, the 351c is unique, the oil dipstick is in the very front, on the left hand side facing you, the water outlet on top of the intake manifold is in the center and looks different than others. If you can, pull off one of the valve covers and get the cyl. head casting numbers. This will tell you if the heads are the small combustion chambers or the large ones.
Bob Moore

 

[D.Hearne]

Take a good look at the front engine cover, the 351c is unique, the oil dipstick is in the very front, on the left hand side facing you, the water outlet on top of the intake manifold is in the center and looks different than others. If you can, pull off one of the valve covers and get the cyl. head casting numbers. This will tell you if the heads are the small combustion chambers or the large ones.
Bob Moore

Uh, Pardon me but the well known V-8 with the water outlet in the center of the intake is that "other" brand motor, who's owners absolutely hate to be matched against a Cleveland!! Cleveland intakes are "dry" and have no water outlet, no water inlet either.